Centaur rudder seized

mogmog2 said:
Richard,
Thanks that sounds like good info.
I can't say for sure but your description seems to describe it. You say "If it's a rudder stock design...." are there alternatives?
Cheers
Click to expand...

Yes, there are many different designs of rudder mountings and I don't know anything about the Centaur so I was hedging my bets. However, looking at Vic's photo, it is the design with a single tubular/solid stock and internal bearings.

Richard
 
Last edited:
RichardS said:
Yes, there are many different designs of rudder mountings and I don't know anything about the Centaur so I was hedging my bets. However, looking at Vic's photo, it is the design with a single tubular stock and internal bearings.

Richard
Click to expand...

It is not tubular but solid 1" stainless - as I said earlier. That is its weakness, it has a tendency to bend if the rudder hits anything. No sophisticated bearings and as Vics says just held in by a collar round the stock under the tiller., so easy to drop an replace.
 
That would presumably be likely to turn one way though, just not past the fin? There is a possibility that it could get bent whilst dead centre I suppose.
 
pvb said:
There are loads of Centaurs around, why not simply ignore this one and look for another?
Click to expand...

+1 ..or rather that's what i'd do... it's a buyers market.... as you are keen though, perhaps tell the seller you'll be back when he/she's fixed it, or is the rudder not working part of the reason for the competitive price?
 
Tranona said:
No sophisticated bearings and as Vics says just held in by a collar round the stock under the tiller., so easy to drop an replace.
Click to expand...

Easy to replace what? The stock or the rudder? Replacing the stock will involve splitting the rudder and a fair amount of work. Replacing the rudder won't be cheap - new rudders are about £1300.
 
Fantasie 19 said:
+1 ..or rather that's what i'd do... it's a buyers market.... as you are keen though, perhaps tell the seller you'll be back when he/she's fixed it, or is the rudder not working part of the reason for the competitive price?
Click to expand...

You will not get a perfect secondhand boat. All will need some work and time spent on them to suit the new owner. Asking if a problem is serious and if anyone has addressed it before, is a good start is deciding the price and if it the one to buy. Getting the price right and improving what is important to the new owner is part of the fun,
 
mogmog2 said:
That would presumably be likely to turn one way though, just not past the fin? There is a possibility that it could get bent whilst dead centre I suppose.
Click to expand...

Yes it would turn one way but may have been forced into the central position a jammed there but a reasonable amount of force would soon shift it again. Little possibility of bending it significantly while dead centre. We always made sure the tiller was lashed centrally in the Berwick when the boat was to dry ( eg on its own mooring) then it did not matter if the rudder bounced on the bottom.

I dont think we are sure which type of of rudder it is. The later type which I pictured earlier or the earlier spade type.

I really doubt if the trouble is due to a bent stock ...... My experience is that they bend below the bottom bearing without affecting the ease with which they turn in the bearings.

My bets would be on corrosion of the stock seizing it in one of the bearings

Bearings are a hard engineering plastic of some sort . Nylon or more likely acetal? Pictured here http://www.westerly-yachts.co.uk/popup_image.php?pID=279
 
pvb said:
Easy to replace what? The stock or the rudder? Replacing the stock will involve splitting the rudder and a fair amount of work. Replacing the rudder won't be cheap - new rudders are about £1300.
Click to expand...

I think you will find he means easy to drop the whole assembly, stock and rudder blade , and to refit it!
 
VicS said:
I think you will find he means easy to drop the whole assembly, stock and rudder blade , and to refit it!
Click to expand...

Exactly what I meant. If it is the spade rudder and it is bent as it comes out of the hull it may be possible to straighten it.
 
Tranona said:
Exactly what I meant. If it is the spade rudder and it is bent as it comes out of the hull it may be possible to straighten it.
Click to expand...

We used to straighten the Berwick rudder stock ( similar to the Mk 2 Centaur rudder) in situ with a spanish windlass round the rudder and the keels!
 
Sorry if my posts are a bit random, I may be having cookies problems as I keep not seeing all of the responses - mine included, hence the double posts.
 
VicS said:
We used to straighten the Berwick rudder stock ( similar to the Mk 2 Centaur rudder) in situ with a spanish windlass round the rudder and the keels!
Click to expand...

I'm surprised these rudder stocks bend so easily, bearing in mind they're from what many regard to be British boatbuilding's finest hour!
 
pvb said:
I'm surprised these rudder stocks bend so easily, bearing in mind they're from what many regard to be British boatbuilding's finest hour!
Click to expand...

some people are surprised at the problem with Centaur keels too!
 
pvb said:
I'm surprised these rudder stocks bend so easily, bearing in mind they're from what many regard to be British boatbuilding's finest hour!
Click to expand...

Another myth exploded. It was very common at the time for smaller boats with spade rudders to use 1" stocks. The Centaur one was particularly vulnerable in direct line with the gap between the keels. also the large spade blade but big stress on the stock.

Andrew Simpson used to use a photo of one (bent) to illustrate bad design in his old PBO articles. The danger is that the bent stock can bring the rudder into contact with the hull, which maybe what has happened here.
 
Any chance that the bearings have been replaced wrongly with nylon material? Nylon expands in moisture and lead to this scenario.
 
Interesting... We went out to her yesterday and the rudder had moved. So, it is not solid. Just very stiff. When we went to view her, we both had a push on the tiller & it didn't move. And we pushed fairly hard, but we're anxious to not break anything. So either a subsequent viewer (if there were any) pushed really hard, or she got stirred up in storm Aileen.

Now we just have a stiff rudder to deal with. Which is worse than barnacles but better than a mangled stock.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top