Centaur rudder seized

mogmog2

mogmog2

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Hello,
We went to look at a Westerly Centaur today. One thing that we noticed was that the tiller would not move (the rudder).

The boat has been left for quite some while, but not sure 12-24months possibly

Can anyone advise what the implications of this are? I've seen info about boats with bent spade rudders - can that cause complete lack of movement?

Any other possibilities? And more importantly how difficult to rectify?

At this stage, we don't know whether it is a spade or skeg rudder. The boat has rectangular portlights, which I think makes in newer rather than older? The Westerly plate appears to say K022 but is very hard to read. Also the main bulkhead is faced with melamine-type "wood".

Many thanks
 
Yeah, I just took a look at about 60 photos of Centaurs ashore, and none of them had the rudder in contact with the ground. :rolleyes:
 
pvb said:
There are loads of Centaurs around, why not simply ignore this one and look for another?
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Because this one is at a price that makes a certain amount of hassle worthwhile, and it's in a geographically useful place.
 
mogmog2 said:
Because this one is at a price that makes a certain amount of hassle worthwhile, and it's in a geographically useful place.
Click to expand...

But what will it cost you to discover how much the hassle will eventually cost? Walk away, there'll be another one.
 
pvb said:
There are loads of Centaurs around, why not simply ignore this one and look for another?
Click to expand...

Because this one is at a price that makes a certain amount of hassle worthwhile, and it is in a geographically useful place.
 
If it's a rudder stock design with a large diameter (30 to 40mm) stainless tube which goes up through the aft part of the hull through nylon-type (usually delrin/acetal) bearings then it could be like one of my rudders which seized solid. It's due to corrosion in the metal of the bearing surrounds but is easily and cheaply fixed with some easing oil, some wet and dry paper and plenty of grease ... but you have to drop the rudder so you need room underneath and some wooden blocks to use as drivers from the top. It's a 2-man job but will only take an hour or so.

Alternatively it could be a bent rudder stock but you might be able to assess that by looking for damage on the rudder itself or trying to see if there is any out-of-trueness visible once it's out of the water.

Richard
 
pvb said:
But what will it cost you to discover how much the hassle will eventually cost? Walk away, there'll be another one.
Click to expand...
I appreciate you're trying to help, but having seen what we've just seen I think this one bears a bit more investigation before walking away.
 
The tiller would not move (the rudder).

So do you mean that the wooden tiller could be turned side to side and you couldn't see the rudder move or that it was impossible to move the tiller at all?

If the first, then the Centaurs rudder location underneath the boat would mean that if afloat, you wouldn't be able to see it move if the wooden tiller was moved side to side.
If the wooden tiller couldn't be moved at all, it could be that something is jamming the rudder in the water (weed, rope, barnacles) or that the rudder shaft is seized in the outer tube which the shaft sits in. Could be problematic to repair as the outer tube is bonded into the hull. There are bearings top and bottom, but its a boat out of the water, get it up high so you can draw the shaft from the tube or dig a deep hole under the rudder to enable it to be dropped.
Take a look at the Westerly Forum (Google it) there may be answers there.
 
The rudder stock is a simple, solid 1" or 25mm stainless steel rod running in plain bearings. unlikely the bearings are seized to the extent that it won't turn, but if it is a simple spade early type the stock could be bent. Either way it is no big deal to fix and should not be a show stopper if everything else is OK about the boat - that is no other obvious major defects and the price is right (ie low!)
 
Tranona said:
The rudder stock is a simple, solid 1" or 25mm stainless steel rod running in plain bearings. unlikely the bearings are seized to the extent that it won't turn, but if it is a simple spade early type the stock could be bent. Either way it is no big deal to fix and should not be a show stopper if everything else is OK about the boat - that is no other obvious major defects and the price is right (ie low!)
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Even the stock of a later type rudder could be bent as the rudder is not actuallt supported by the half depth skeg. It was a real problem with the Berwick I sailed which had the same design rudder.

Photo cribbed from "The Yacht Market" shows the later type
If the rudder stock gets bent ( easily done!) the top of the rudder hits the little fin above it

72236935gallery_wm.jpg
 
Last edited:
Giblets said:
Not the £2500 one for sale by the daughter of the recently deceased owner by any chance?
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I'm not sure that it's really fair to post up information like that, even though it's presumably available on the web, unless the poster has volunteered it, as it might encourage someone to try and gazump the OP and would discourage people asking for advice about boats for sale.

I accept that the OP doesn't have to reply to your post but it's now a bit like a "When did you stopped beating your wife" question hanging there. :)

I would be interested if others have the same concerns. If it's just me I'll shut up, I promise! ;)

Richard
 
RichardS said:
I'm not sure that it's really fair to post up information like that, even though it's presumably available on the web, unless the poster has volunteered it, as it might encourage someone to try and gazump the OP and would discourage people asking for advice about boats for sale.
Click to expand...

If it's public domain info, I don't think it really matters. Anyone seriously looking for a Centaur would presumably have trawled through the details of those for sale.
 
Richard,
Thanks that sounds like good info.
I can't say for sure but your description seems to describe it. You say "If it's a rudder stock design...." are there alternatives?
Cheers
 
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