CE marking / engine emissions

[Lostinayr]

Hi

Currently eyeing up an import.

I'll need cat d CE marking.

Only thing that is concerning me is that the engine needs to pass emissions test?

A petrol 5.7 v8 inboard from 1998 doesn't seem likely to pass anything by today's standard?

Anyone had any experience with this? Am I worrying about nothing?

Air Nautique Wakeboard Boat.

 

[Tranona]

Not a chance. Later engines (mid 2000's) may have a CE mark, but you need the manufacturers certificate as one off assessment is neither practical nor economic. Many US engines were never CE marked for obvious reasons, unless they were made for the European market.

 

[alt]

You sure it's diesel? 5.7 V8 sounds like a petrol to me.

 

[MapisM]

Tranona is correct in principle, but I've seen some US speedboats getting CE certification even if equipped with Mercury Racing engines which have never been CE compliant (and in fact they are not even sold in EU).
Don't ask me which trick they used, but there must have been some involved, obviously.

Btw, Air Nautique with 5.7 V8 engine very much sounds like a petrol boat, R U sure she has a diesel engine?
And if yes, which one, if you don't mind me asking - just out of curiosity.

PS: ops, alt beated me ref diesel/petrol - not that it really matters for the main issue, anyway.

 

[Lostinayr]

Hi

So sorry it is petrol. I've been brain dead from reading all day about engines.

 

[Lostinayr]

Does that make a difference though. The idea of dropping a new engine in it makes it unfeasonable.

And seems completely unfair when there are far older v8's floating about everywhere.

 

[rafiki_]

You might find that the engine manufacturer has the appropriate emissions cert.

 

[Tranona]

Does that make a difference though. The idea of dropping a new engine in it makes it unfeasonable.

And seems completely unfair when there are far older v8's floating about everywhere.

The rules are not retrospective - how could they be? so boats and engines in the UK before rules come in can still be used legally.

The new rules apply to all new imports whether they be new or used boats. It effectively kills imports of anything except boats that US builders build for the European market.

I fit helps, similar restrictions apply going the other way - you can't import a European boat unless it complies with USCG standards which inevitably are different from EU.

 

[Lostinayr]

I understand the eu protectionism that is in force here.

But the point is there are plenty uk 1998 air nautiques (just not for sale) so the fact that the same boat isn't legal just cos it started off life in the us and today wouldn't pass an emission test seems a bit silly when if they were CE marked at conception they are yet polluting away.

The CE marking is fine. Just the emissions I can't see how any second hand boat would ever pass. Yet no such standard applies to a boat in the uk before 1998 which could be terribly inefficient.

 

[rafiki_]

Engine Emissions testing is done on a test bed, not in a boat. You would have to remove the engine, fit it to a cradle then mount to a dynamometer in a test cell. You are probably talking £15-£20k just to get the engine into a test cell, before you start the testing and analysis.

 

[Lostinayr]

I spoke to someone who does CE marking. Emissions data from the engine manufacturer is used so it's likely to pass if we can get that.

However the whole process is likely to cost £1500 including his travel.

 

[Tranona]

I understand the eu protectionism that is in force here.

But the point is there are plenty uk 1998 air nautiques (just not for sale) so the fact that the same boat isn't legal just cos it started off life in the us and today wouldn't pass an emission test seems a bit silly when if they were CE marked at conception they are yet polluting away.

The CE marking is fine. Just the emissions I can't see how any second hand boat would ever pass. Yet no such standard applies to a boat in the uk before 1998 which could be terribly inefficient.

No point in ranting about the seeming irrationality of the rules. You can apply your logic to many other products which have had new standards introduced where it is impossible to act retrospectively but the rules apply to all products entering the market from a certain date. If you try and differentiate as you suggest you give an unfair advantage to some products over others. The reality is that it affects only a tiny number of people who want to import cheap old boats, mainly from the US. Anyway the older the boats get the less economical it is to buy there with high shipping costs, VAT and the lousy exchange rate for the dollar.

The way round the restriction is to become resident in the US, buy a boat at least 6 months beforehand and become a returning resident. If you qualify with the narrow requirements you can import your boat VAT free and without requiring a CE mark. You will then become a member of an even more exclusive group. However an awful lot of trouble just to buy an old US boat!

 

[Lostinayr]

Haha I think the CE approval is more likely than my citizenship! But I like the out of the box thinking.

The thing about standards is that if the engine didn't pass the test then I can actually put an older even less efficient engine in it. As long as that engine is from the eu it already bears the marking and then doesn't need to pass the test!

It was an eye opening conversation I had today. But dem de rules. Merely reduces choice and therefore pushes the price up for eu citizens.

I'm still saving a good few thousand if I do it and getting the exact requirements I want. So it's not off the table yet. But will bide my time incase something else ops up.

 

[MapisM]

I spoke to someone who does CE marking. Emissions data from the engine manufacturer is used so it's likely to pass if we can get that.

However the whole process is likely to cost £1500 including his travel.

Do you mean that a spokesman from a notified body, entitled to issue CE certificates, told you that a 1998 petrol engine is likely to pass current emission rules based on some pre-1998 specs sheet?!?

This must be one of the gentlemen I mentioned before, who issued CE certificates for boats powered by engines which the manufacturer itself does not even sell in the EU... :ambivalence:

 

[Tranona]

Haha I think the CE approval is more likely than my citizenship! But I like the out of the box thinking.

The thing about standards is that if the engine didn't pass the test then I can actually put an older even less efficient engine in it. As long as that engine is from the eu it already bears the marking and then doesn't need to pass the test!

It was an eye opening conversation I had today. But dem de rules. Merely reduces choice and therefore pushes the price up for eu citizens.

I'm still saving a good few thousand if I do it and getting the exact requirements I want. So it's not off the table yet. But will bide my time incase something else ops up.

Suggest you stop wasting your time trying to dream up ways of circumventing the rules. As I understand it you are proposing to import the boat minus its non compliant engine (you won't get it in with the engine - even if you intend junking it) and then replace it with an engine already in the EU.

If you do that you will then fall foul of the latest change in the RCD which would probably classify that as a major change to the boat and would need recertification. Still new rules and not sure how well they are going to be policed, but worth taking into account.

 

[Lostinayr]

Well no. Because if that's what it takes and costs to get the right boat then that's what it takes.

And it's not circumventing the rules. It's following them.

There's a distinct lack of choice and availability in the uk. I could wait years before similar goes on the market from an European market boat.

So it's not off the table unless something magically appears in the next few weeks.