CE document for a 2001 rib Q

[vas]

quick question for the experts:

I'm about to buy a s/h rib (AVON jetrib 3.2m) from a forumite in the UK and bring it to Greece.
Got my nav/arch/whatever.eng to check the docs available with the guys at the port authorities.
He came back today saying that they don't like the CE doc I gave them.
Now the CE doc is actually the last page of the operators manual which obviously is a generic doc, doesn't have HIN and eng numbers on it etc. That's what they asked for!

Question to you:

Does any builder issue personalised CE docs for each boat they built?
Sounds a bit odd tbh, but that's what they want.
Need some arguments for/against that to go and discuss it with them tomorrow.

I do understand that even if there are companies that do issue personalised CE docs, AVON is not in business anymore and that's an extra complication...

ideas?

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

Does any builder issue personalised CE docs for each boat they built?

Yes for the mother ship, no for the 2 Avon tenders I have owned, and no for my Laser, kayaks, etc. It's usually just a page in the instruction book. Same as if you buy a TV or a toaster.

As for ideas, I would research the law and find where the requirement for a custom CE cert is stated. There is probably a cut off where a generic is ok, and it might be a €€€ value cut off or it might be a "they're all the same" cut off. If you can find this you will be able to prove the port authorities wrong, because these Avon tenders would probably be underneath both cut offs

 

[vas]

As for ideas, I would research the law and find where the requirement for a custom CE cert is stated. There is probably a cut off where a generic is ok, and it might be a €€€ value cut off or it might be a "they're all the same" cut off. If you can find this you will be able to prove the port authorities wrong, because these Avon tenders would probably be underneath both cut offs

thanks John,

problem is that I have a life to live and I try to avoid dealing with bureaucrats as much as I can, and port authorities are amongst the worse available down here
These guys have a tendency to "review" and "interpret" the law at will and always to the worse for the citizen. I'm sure if it was up to them, they'd ask a CE certificate for MiToS (built in 76 )
I'll try and find relevant legislation only I don't know if they work with EU one or have their own halfbaked version.

looks like I wont avoid visiting them tomorrow...

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Vas, I have no idea where to look for the CE cert for my RibEye. I’m pretty sure it has a CE plate, but could be wrong. If I get a few minutes tomorrow, I will try and Google the appropriate regs. Howver this will be UK transposed law, which may differ from the Greek interpretation.

 

[Montemar]

Have a look at this:-
http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/legal/buying-a-boat/Pages/recreational-craft-directive.aspx

 

[vas]

Hm,

well, seems that the port authorities treat a 10m or a 20m boat the same as 3m tender.
They insist they need a CE doc with the following:
HIN
engine serial, size/power
people allowed
weights, etc.

Now I do have the HIN riveted on the hull and on the sale doc

CE label on the rib with model SEASPORT 3.20 JET
Design category C
weight acceptable (not the right term but you get the idea...) =< 350kg
persons =< 4
tube pressure 0.17bar
and a note it conforms to ISO 6185 (Part 3/VII) [whatever that means, haven't googled it].

So basically I'm missing engine model and serial number as well as engine power. They seem v.keen on that.
Since AVON is no more, there's no way I could get exactly what they want, nor is something the dealer can provide.
To an extent explains why most of the ribs on sale around here are sold as is with no docs and no standalone licence.
Of course I could do that as well, but then if port authorities find you more than a mile from mothership, you get a nice big fat fine (inxs of 500euro) and I'm not keen to pay them anything, they're not worth what they get from me as it stands...

I'll pursue it a bit further and then decide.

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

Have a look at this:-
http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/legal/buying-a-boat/Pages/recreational-craft-directive.aspx

thanks Montemar,

a quick read reveals that AVON produce exactly what is needed, but the idiotic authorities here are as usual "above the law" and they overshoot it...
Will try to find the Greek implementation of this Directive 2013/53/EU and see what's going on.

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Surely with an outboard engine, this cannot be part of the boat CE marking. The engine will have its own, and should be available from the manufacturer?

 

[vas]

Surely with an outboard engine, this cannot be part of the boat CE marking. The engine will have its own, and should be available from the manufacturer?

yep, but it's an avon jetrib with an integrated yamaha 2stroke 82hp (I think) jet motor.
I'll ask what they want to licence jetskis and see if they also want 2 CE docs.
Dunno maybe all jetskis in Greece are illegal and none bothers to licence them (wouldn't be impressed if that's the case tbh...)

cheers

V.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Photoshop

 

[vas]

Photoshop

Adobe Photoshop, yes, nice program excellent features re cloning/copying/pasting and scaling text, images, logos, sigs, etc.
We don't post things like that in an open forum, do we?

problem is I don't even have the bloody AVON form to fill in! And for good reason as it doesn't exist...
Asked today to give me an example and they produced a sorry doc by a local dealer for an outboard. Explained that the jetrib has no outboard nor can I go about swapping engines like that, just got some blank faces staring at me, before getting back in gear repeating pointless things.

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Hm,

well, seems that the port authorities treat a 10m or a 20m boat the same as 3m tender.
They insist they need a CE doc with the following:
HIN
engine serial, size/power
people allowed
weights, etc.

Now I do have the HIN riveted on the hull and on the sale doc

CE label on the rib with model SEASPORT 3.20 JET
Design category C
weight acceptable (not the right term but you get the idea...) =< 350kg
persons =< 4
tube pressure 0.17bar
and a note it conforms to ISO 6185 (Part 3/VII) [whatever that means, haven't googled it].

So basically I'm missing engine model and serial number as well as engine power. They seem v.keen on that.
Since AVON is no more, there's no way I could get exactly what they want, nor is something the dealer can provide.
To an extent explains why most of the ribs on sale around here are sold as is with no docs and no standalone licence.
Of course I could do that as well, but then if port authorities find you more than a mile from mothership, you get a nice big fat fine (inxs of 500euro) and I'm not keen to pay them anything, they're not worth what they get from me as it stands...

I'll pursue it a bit further and then decide.

cheers

V.

Vas, when you have the engine manufacturer and serial number, you might try them? They generally have the CE certs on file in my experience.

 

[jfm]

Vas, the last page of the book gives you the format of the CE certificate with signature of Paul Hill, in case you need to "obtain" one - the provider could add the HIN and engine serial number in all correctness imho because the certificate by its own terms expressly covers all 320s and 400s and therefore by its nature it covers your particular 320.

Page 10 of the manual tells you exactly, with a picture, where to read the engine serial number. It's a Yamaha 83hp/62Kw engine as fitted to a million jet skis in that era. Weights/people are on page 2

 

[vas]

Vas, when you have the engine manufacturer and serial number, you might try them? They generally have the CE certs on file in my experience.

true, but shouldn't really be needed P...

Vas, the last page of the book gives you the format of the CE certificate with signature of Paul Hill, in case you need to "obtain" one - the provider could add the HIN and engine serial number in all correctness imho because the certificate by its own terms expressly covers all 320s and 400s and therefore by its nature it covers your particular 320.

John, how about coming over and explaining that to a couple bureaucrats in uniforms then and see how you manage?
Mind, these are worse than plain bureaucrats without uniforms that you get in the rest of the public sector down here...
I did try to, no luck.

Page 10 of the manual tells you exactly, with a picture, where to read the engine serial number. It's a Yamaha 83hp/62Kw engine as fitted to a million jet skis in that era. Weights/people are on page 2

I got today photos of engine serial and emissions etc label, tomorrow will try again for the last time.

For a laugh, just to comprehend what these idiots are doing and how the legislation is setup, If everything fails, it was suggested to me (not by them mind!) to do the following:

Just bring it down to Greece, no docs needed, NOTHING!
File a report to the port office that I found it floating on the sea in x.y. coordinates one night (preferably towards the end of the season...)
Wait for a year, if noone claims it it becomes mine and I get a new set of docs and licences foc!
How about that for efficiency, keeping the rules and being legal?

Should I bother, or do that, you tell me!

bloody idiots!

V.

 

[jfm]

John, how about coming over and explaining that to a couple bureaucrats in uniforms then and see how you manage?

I do totally get it Vas . Read my post a bit more - I was referring to the format and the signature. That's all. I'm barking up Jimmy's tree

 

[vas]

I do totally get it Vas . Read my post a bit more - I was referring to the format and the signature. That's all. I'm barking up Jimmy's tree

yep, I'm gaining valuable experience (that I shouldn't really need!) but at the same time I've burnt my chances of getting it registered in Volos.
I'll "prepare" the right docs and take them down to Athens and register it there

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

?? Surely you can just tell the volos guys that "You've discovered the document they wanted! They were right all along!! What clever value-creating people they are!" Jumping for joy as you say all this

shall I now delete above posts? And just write a post saying what great guys they are?

 

[vas]

?? Surely you can just tell the volos guys that "You've discovered the document they wanted! They were right all along!! What clever value-creating people they are!" Jumping for joy as you say all this

shall I now delete above posts? And just write a post saying what great guys they are?

nah, don't worry doubt they speak english, let alone, join a forum and read complex sentences
I'll keep you posted anyway.

Is it freezing cold in SoF? Your brother hasn't chosen the best week for working on the boat, hope you don't have to do external manual work!

cheers

V.

 

[Zing]

quick question for the experts:

I'm about to buy a s/h rib (AVON jetrib 3.2m) from a forumite in the UK and bring it to Greece.
Got my nav/arch/whatever.eng to check the docs available with the guys at the port authorities.
He came back today saying that they don't like the CE doc I gave them.
Now the CE doc is actually the last page of the operators manual which obviously is a generic doc, doesn't have HIN and eng numbers on it etc. That's what they asked for!

Question to you:

Does any builder issue personalised CE docs for each boat they built?
Sounds a bit odd tbh, but that's what they want.
Need some arguments for/against that to go and discuss it with them tomorrow.

I do understand that even if there are companies that do issue personalised CE docs, AVON is not in business anymore and that's an extra complication...

ideas?

cheers

V.

I just sold my 2003 Avon rib to a French dealer. He asked me for the CE certificate and I showed him the generic one on the back page of the manual. He seemed satisfied with it.

Also, I don’t see why the port authorities need to get involved. Can’t you just bring it over and plonk it on the boat? Once it is there then surely it will never be checked?

 

[vas]

Also, I don’t see why the port authorities need to get involved. Can’t you just bring it over and plonk it on the boat? Once it is there then surely it will never be checked?

only for a Greek registrered craft the tender is not allowed to be further than 1nm from mothership else a serious fine is due. Hence the reason for this (pointless) exercise

cheers

V.