Cautionary advice : Do Not let go of your documents .......

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Refueler

Refueler

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OK .... word of caution ...

Example : Today stopped on river by Border Guard patrol ...

They as per usual requirements request to see Operators licence and boat registration.

Both produced and shown .... but they want to have in 'their hands' ..... NO WAY.

I make sure they can read both sides of ICC and Boat registration ... and with friendly chat ...

WITH video recording.

All accepted and free to proceed ......

Why keep in own hand documents ? Once out of yours - you have no idea what will be next. Don't even give copies !!

Be nice ... keep hold ... and all should be good.
 
I regularly hand my passport to authorized persons. Sometimes they take it away for a few weeks. Why would I not hand over my YM and Part 1 registration documents say to UK border force? Is this advice for your part of the world, or in general?
 
I think that in general it is good advice. I suspect that a degree of corruption went on in former Eastern Bloc countries and probably continues in some. I don’t remember having any qualms about handing over our passports at the immigration offices that we were obliged to call at at every harbour entrance in Poland in 2004 when we first went there, but then, I didn’t have much choice as he would have a gun and I didn’t.
 
Wow.

Got away with that one.

Refusing to hand over documents to border officials and then recording them would usually have a different outcome I think.
 
I have taken to noting in my desk diary any event between our family and government agencies or any event that is important and that I may forget.As an example we had a letter from our gas supplier “butano” that we are due for an inspection .I I have a record of the three times I phoned them.There is a fine for not having an inspection.In real life the gas installation has been done by a registered plumber so It’s not important that an inspector actually came as he ought to .
 
Just to be clear .... I do not suggest that 'not handing over' applies everywhere ....

If I was actually guilty of an action - then I would be foolish to add to it ...

Here - most officials will act correctly and I have no objection - but there are cases of 'other actions' ..... my being prosecuted for 'drunk in charge of a boat' in the past is a good example of wrongful action.

The encounter yesterday was friendly and without any complaint form both sides ...
 
"Please hand me your documents"
"No. You can look at them from a distance and I will be recording you!"

Imagine trying this with US Coast guard or Border security.
Would you expect an answer like

"Oh. Okay then. Thant sounds fine"
 
When I used to fly to Egypt, immigration kept all our passports for the duration of our stay (up to 48 hours). Plenty of opportunity for accurate duplicate to be made?

Recently been on an Azamara cruise around Asia. The cruise line kept hold of our passports for three weeks and gave us photocopies to go ashore in places this was a requirement.

When we got them back, they were filled with entry/exit stamps and visas for the countries we visited (Malaysia, Philippines, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Cambodia & Thailand).
 
Handing in passports at hotels when checking in is pretty common, though I think in my experience always returned within a day or so.
 
Refueler said:
Just to be clear .... I do not suggest that 'not handing over' applies everywhere ....

If I was actually guilty of an action - then I would be foolish to add to it ...

Here - most officials will act correctly and I have no objection - but there are cases of 'other actions' ..... my being prosecuted for 'drunk in charge of a boat' in the past is a good example of wrongful action.

The encounter yesterday was friendly and without any complaint form both sides ...
Click to expand...
Your OP and even your clarification don’t really help us understand what risk handing over the documents actually brings.
 
garymalmgren said:
"Please hand me your documents"
"No. You can look at them from a distance and I will be recording you!"

Imagine trying this with US Coast guard or Border security.
Would you expect an answer like

"Oh. Okay then. Thant sounds fine"
Click to expand...

As a frequent visitor to USA and many countries around the world - I am well aware of the possibilities etc.

No-one is talking about USA or anywhere except my post regarding River Venta in Latvia.
 
ylop said:
Your OP and even your clarification don’t really help us understand what risk handing over the documents actually brings.
Click to expand...

Having been refused return of docs here in the past - that is my basis.

Plus - the court case where I was wrongly prosecuted : River Police said they had video of me 'driving the boat' ... I immediately requested the video be shown in court - to ascertain time and location and if it agreed with the location and time of stop. Police Rep in court stated that they could not find the said video ... I therefore asked the court to ignore such as it could not be viewed and verified.
Court believed the Police and that was it.

Life has some lessons and if you haven't experienced such - then I hope you never do.
 
does videoing them not mitigate that risk?
does them never having the docs preclude a prosecution?
does it risk other charges like failing to provide the docs or annoy them so they hunt the boat for something they can charge you with?
youtube is full of people being stopped (driving) by the police who seem to make a point of making their stop as difficult as possible for everyone involved, sometimes they are technically right but seem to want to aggrivate the cops.

Living in a land where it would be very unusual to see a cop on the water (except Mod plod round bases etc), do they stop people at random? everyone? people they genuinely think might be up to no good? or people who have pissed them off in the past? do you expect to get stopped next time you are out or is that them for the season?

When I read the thread title I was expecting a commical account of how whilst passing over (or back) your docs to the rib they had been dropped in the drink not a very specific warning about bent cops in one particular part of Latvia. It was positioned as a "word of caution", that suggested it was something that might be useful to the rest of us. Whilst there is a small chance I might visit Latvia, probably not that particular river, and if I did I might still decide that cooperating was less risk than not as a foreigner, who doesn't speak the lingo and is unaware of their exact laws.
 
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Refueler said:
Having been refused return of docs here in the past - that is my basis.

Plus - the court case where I was wrongly prosecuted : River Police said they had video of me 'driving the boat' ... I immediately requested the video be shown in court - to ascertain time and location and if it agreed with the location and time of stop. Police Rep in court stated that they could not find the said video ... I therefore asked the court to ignore such as it could not be viewed and verified.
Court believed the Police and that was it.

Life has some lessons and if you haven't experienced such - then I hope you never do.
Click to expand...
I do have some sympathy - I've had a cop in the uk 'lose' a video of an alleged traffic offense..I don’t trust them either.

..but this thread certainly has potential.
You say you were unjustly prosecuted for being leathered in charge of a river boat? Is this the same incident when they kept hold of your docs? What made them think you'd had a few?
 
obmij said:
I do have some sympathy - I've had a cop in the uk 'lose' a video of an alleged traffic offense..I don’t trust them either.

..but this thread certainly has potential.
You say you were unjustly prosecuted for being leathered in charge of a river boat? Is this the same incident when they kept hold of your docs? What made them think you'd had a few?
Click to expand...

I never claimed I had not had a drink - I had over the limit - IF I was in charge of the boat - but I wasn't. The boat was in hands of another.

An incident occurred up river where a guy on a pontoon caused an argument ... a public pontoon - that we stopped at for my wife to get ashore to the shop ... on return - the guy pushed my wife - who nearly went into the water. I did what any husband would do - shouted at him and stepped of the boat to confront him
Wife got on boat and the others all agreed we would leave .....

Next I know is that River Police stop my boat ... the guy on the pontoon had called police - claiming I had threatened him and was drunk. Police asked who OWNED the boat - I of course answered. They insisted that Ownership constituted in charge of - despite the fact of another was clearly noted to be helming / in charge etc.
Even when my boat was moved from the stop - back to her mooring at home - it was clear to all that such was done by another - not me.

At that time - I had a Latvian Boat licence ... which had been asked for ... which went into the pocket of the officer.

Rest of the story is irrelevant apart from the reported police video - which was never found ...

OK .. that's it for me ... I started the thread .. made my post ... that's it. End of .
 
I keep the orgional papers of my boat at home but keep certified copies on the boat so if they are not returned, I still have the origionals in a safe place and certified copies can be created again
 
rogerthebodger said:
I keep the orgional papers of my boat at home but keep certified copies on the boat so if they are not returned, I still have the origionals in a safe place and certified copies can be created again
Click to expand...

Certified Copies are not accepted here .... up until recently - if you did not have the original registration in hand - you could be accused of theft !

Now with road vehicles at least - Police have access to registration via computer in the patrol cars. But boats - we still have to carry originals.

My ICC (RYA) original stays at home ... and I have reduced size version laminated in my wallet ....
 
Refueler said:
Certified Copies are not accepted here .... up until recently - if you did not have the original registration in hand - you could be accused of theft !

Now with road vehicles at least - Police have access to registration via computer in the patrol cars. But boats - we still have to carry originals.

My ICC (RYA) original stays at home ... and I have reduced size version laminated in my wallet ....
Click to expand...

So if the original docs get damage by the ingress of water can it be replaced and how do you prove ownership without the original

This is why the originals need to be kept in a safe place so if the one on the boat is damaged in any way you can still prove ownership
 
garymalmgren said:
"Please hand me your documents"
"No. You can look at them from a distance and I will be recording you!"

Imagine trying this with US Coast guard or Border security.
Would you expect an answer like

"Oh. Okay then. Thant sounds fine"
Click to expand...
You'd be handcuffed and thrown to the deck, I believe.
 
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