CAUTION when buying from a broker

[Glynny]

Your first statement is, I think incorrect. It is not part of the British Marine Federation, although it may well be a member, as are literally hundreds of others in the marine business.

They are very clear about their requirements for membership, which require much more than is legally necessary to operate - which is just about zero. Anybody can set up as a broker, it is not a "reserved" occupation. So like many other similar occupations any representative or accrediting body has to be voluntary and self governing.

This is not to excuse either bad performance of the broker, nor the response from the organisation as we don't know the whole story, only your side, but it helps at least to start with correct facts when commenting.

Thank you for your comments.

Please look at this link which points out the relationship between the BMF and the Boat Retailers and Brokers Association. http://www.britishmarine.co.uk/what_we_do/membership/region__group_associations.aspx

As you will notice from reading this link, they are not just a member, they are an affiliated association. I have spoken with the BMF in great detail prior to being told to email the BRBA.
If you think I am still in the wrong with this statement, I can only apologise however, I do think that your input is valuable and will help others who are genuinely looking for their next boat through a broker.

Again, let Buyer Beware.

 

[Tranona]

My apologies - jumping to conclusions. I assumed you were talking about the ABYA which is part of the YBDSA. www.ybdsa.co.uk

 

[Glynny]

My apologies - jumping to conclusions. I assumed you were talking about the ABYA which is part of the YBDSA. www.ybdsa.co.uk

No, Sorry, my apologies - I should have been more specific in the original text.

Thank you

 

[jonic]

Sorry me too. I am a member of ABYA which is part of the YBDSA and has been in existence for 100 years.

I strive very hard to maintain high standards of integrity, because my reputation is the thing that brings the next client. So I guard it jealously and have fired clients in the past, and no doubt probably will do again.

I got this testimonial this morning...... and I didn't even sell him a boat!

"Hi John,

Just a quick note to say that at long last and after some frankly frustrating wasted journeys looking at xxxxxx with xxxxxxxxxx yachts (They could learn much from you) we have found our next yacht.

It's older than we would have liked 1992 but is in very good order with new engine, teak decks,standing, rigging,sails,etc and has the island berth in the main cabin.


We are most grateful to you for your kind help and friendship in our very pleasant dealings with you and wish you and you family continued good health and success.

Please contact us John if you are ever down this way as we would love to see you and your family any time.

Kindest of regards.

xxx & xxxxx"


Now it's not always like that and I'm sure there are some who get fed up with me, but I do try very hard to limit that number.

 

[Glynny]

Sorry me too. I am a member of ABYA which is part of the YBDSA and has been in existence for 100 years.

I strive very hard to maintain high standards of integrity, because my reputation is the thing that brings the next client. So I guard it jealously and have fired clients in the past, and no doubt probably will do again.

I got this testimonial this morning...... and I didn't even sell him a boat!

"Hi John,

Just a quick note to say that at long last and after some frankly frustrating wasted journeys looking at xxxxxx with xxxxxxxxxx yachts (They could learn much from you) we have found our next yacht.

It's older than we would have liked 1992 but is in very good order with new engine, teak decks,standing, rigging,sails,etc and has the island berth in the main cabin.


We are most grateful to you for your kind help and friendship in our very pleasant dealings with you and wish you and you family continued good health and success.

Please contact us John if you are ever down this way as we would love to see you and your family any time.

Kindest of regards.

xxx & xxxxx"


Now it's not always like that and I'm sure there are some who get fed up with me, but I do try very hard to limit that number.

Hi John

Thank you for this update - this must be very satisfying to receive communication such as this.

On the other hand, would you and your business be in favour of being overseen by a totally independent service which would serve to reduce the number of "cowboy operators" here in the UK?

Yes, it would also be nice to be able to reduce the high number of time-wasting viewers who are "just out for a day trip".
I, like you, believe in being as honest as possible coupled with being pro-active and, treat the client as KING. I bend over backwards to accommodate the needs of a potential customer. I am realistic with descriptions and have been known to buy the client a pint or two in the past.

Finally, we all make mistakes (we are human for goodness sakes) and I am the first person to admit fault and offer apologies. There is nothing wrong with this.
The guys at B*@tshed did nothing but avoid any communication when I picked up on their mistake. All it would have taken was a small gesture to say Sorry.
I tried several times to phone and email this guy to no avail. Eventually, I had to use the complaints procedure at their head office. They offered a mediation service between them and us. Again, nothing came of this, just frustration in not being able to get this guy to admit he had made mistakes and wasted so much of our time.
Yes, we have moved on and have vowed not to use this particular broker again.

Keep up the good work - you are obviously doing something right, John.

Cheers

 

[Twister_Ken]

Hi John

On the other hand, would you and your business be in favour of being overseen by a totally independent service which would serve to reduce the number of "cowboy operators" here in the UK?

Given that there appears to be no effective policing of standards in areas like care homes, social service departments, hospitals, police forces, etc, how would you propose regulating effectively in such a tin-shack operation as yacht broking?

 

[jonic]

Hi John

Thank you for this update - this must be very satisfying to receive communication such as this.

On the other hand, would you and your business be in favour of being overseen by a totally independent service which would serve to reduce the number of "cowboy operators" here in the UK?

Absolutely, I already subscribe and pay to one voluntarily

 

[Tranona]

Given that there appears to be no effective policing of standards in areas like care homes, social service departments, hospitals, police forces, etc, how would you propose regulating effectively in such a tin-shack operation as yacht broking?

Exactly. It is naive to think that any government sponsored "independent" body - even with the theoretical teeth would be effective. (And you haven't mentioned builders, plumbers, estate agents, or dare I say it even solicitors where there is varying oversight but still bad'uns sneak through)

Usually when these threads get well and truly going you tend to get more satisfied (in general) folks than dissenters - but of course satisfied people rarely make an issue. That tends to give over emphasis to the people who have received a bad experience.

 

[Trop Cher]

I once made an inquiry to a broker about a Sigma 362 he had on his books. He told me it had just benefited for a refit, when I asked him what was involved in the refit, he answered "The engine's just been service, the topsides have been polished and it's been anti fouled"!

 

[paulburn]

Why does anyone use brokers ? It's so easy and cheap to put one's own ad on the internet.

Having said that, I have had two happy boat sales, the first through a broker who was excellent (got my ad to appear as first hit on google when boat make entered !)

paul

 

[jonic]

Why does anyone use brokers ? It's so easy and cheap to put one's own ad on the internet.

Having said that, I have had two happy boat sales, the first through a broker who was excellent (got my ad to appear as first hit on google when boat make entered !)

paul

Does placing an ad on the internet

Check your title paperwork
Check your vat status paperwork
Check your RCD status paperwork
Check your registration paperwork
Recover lost paperwork or organise certified copies
Have real time knowledge of actual achieved selling prices in addition to asking prices
Write your boat's particulars in a way that sells
Photograph the boat professionally in a way that sells
Make a video of the boat in a way that sells
Email those details to registered active buyers looking for a boat like yours
Ring the buyer who has asked to be informed when a boat like yours comes up
Market your boat by telephone
Market your boat face to face
Market your boat on broker only websites like yachtworld.com
Market your boat at boatshows
Continuously look for PR opportunities for your boat
Pass your boat's details to a network of co-brokers in a different geographic location
Buy specific, targeted advertising on your behalf
Answer telephone enquiries about your boat
Answer email enquiries about your boat
Pick up viewers from the airport or train station
Take people to see your boat and demonstrate its features in a way that sells
Take people to see your boat who came in to look at another boat and suggest yours is more suitable
Prepare and air your boat before each viewing
Weed out the scammers and money launderers
Negotiate a price
Draw up a contract with conditions specific to you, the boat and the buyer
Hold the deposit securely for both sides
Carry insurance for both sides
Carry out a seatrial
Arrange the survey
Arrange the lift
Attend the survey
Negotiate with the surveyor and buyer after survey
Help with quotes and repairs recommend by the surveyor
Amend the contract with new terms after survey
Process the balance payment securely for both sides
Ensure title is passed correctly and draw up the Bill of Sale
Provide a new paper trail for both sides
Assist with registration and ships radio license transfer
Arrange finance
Arrange insurance
Help find a berth
Buy the drinks on handover?

yacht broking is not advertising

 

[Glynny]

Why does anyone use brokers ? It's so easy and cheap to put one's own ad on the internet.

Having said that, I have had two happy boat sales, the first through a broker who was excellent (got my ad to appear as first hit on google when boat make entered !)

paul

We are brain-washed into using brokers by the so-called experts who deem it necessary to have to pay through the nose for inferior services and goods. The sooner more unscrupulous brokers are sued in court, the sooner we may get a proper service. In America, brokers have a "Customer is King" mentality which goes a long way to forging proper and long term relationships with both boat buyers and the general community.
Paul, according to the many emails that I have received from disgruntled customers of Brokers, it is very obvious that there needs to be something done to keep these parasites away from our sport and pastime.
You did well to maintain a happy sale through your broker.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[Glynny]

Does placing an ad on the internet

Check your title paperwork
Check your vat status paperwork
Check your RCD status paperwork
Check your registration paperwork
Recover lost paperwork or organise certified copies
Have real time knowledge of actual achieved selling prices in addition to asking prices
Write your boat's particulars in a way that sells
Photograph the boat professionally in a way that sells
Make a video of the boat in a way that sells
Email those details to registered active buyers looking for a boat like yours
Ring the buyer who has asked to be informed when a boat like yours comes up
Market your boat by telephone
Market your boat face to face
Market your boat on broker only websites like yachtworld.com
Market your boat at boatshows
Continuously look for PR opportunities for your boat
Pass your boat's details to a network of co-brokers in a different geographic location
Buy specific, targeted advertising on your behalf
Answer telephone enquiries about your boat
Answer email enquiries about your boat
Pick up viewers from the airport or train station
Take people to see your boat and demonstrate its features in a way that sells
Take people to see your boat who came in to look at another boat and suggest yours is more suitable
Prepare and air your boat before each viewing
Weed out the scammers and money launderers
Negotiate a price
Draw up a contract with conditions specific to you, the boat and the buyer
Hold the deposit securely for both sides
Carry insurance for both sides
Carry out a seatrial
Arrange the survey
Arrange the lift
Attend the survey
Negotiate with the surveyor and buyer after survey
Help with quotes and repairs recommend by the surveyor
Amend the contract with new terms after survey
Process the balance payment securely for both sides
Ensure title is passed correctly and draw up the Bill of Sale
Provide a new paper trail for both sides
Assist with registration and ships radio license transfer
Arrange finance
Arrange insurance
Help find a berth
Buy the drinks on handover?

yacht broking is not advertising

Hey John

So what do you get up to in the afternoon???

No, seriously, did you choose to be a broker or were you pushed into it and can't find a way out? I am a house builder and I do all the above and more. I also employ other quality pro-active people to follow the dream of offering a great service to satisfied customers who recommend us to their friends. We do not advertise.
If you are selling/brokering a, say, £300,000 vessel or a £2000,00 vessel, the service offered to the client must be the same.

The customer is king......more brokers should remember this (no matter how imperfect they are)

Thanks for your input and comments.

 

[Glynny]

Exactly. It is naive to think that any government sponsored "independent" body - even with the theoretical teeth would be effective. (And you haven't mentioned builders, plumbers, estate agents, or dare I say it even solicitors where there is varying oversight but still bad'uns sneak through)

Usually when these threads get well and truly going you tend to get more satisfied (in general) folks than dissenters - but of course satisfied people rarely make an issue. That tends to give over emphasis to the people who have received a bad experience.

Who's talking about "Government sponsored" independant body?
Also, over the 24 hours that this thread has been live on this forum, I have also taken 196 Private Messages about this subject (mostly disgruntled boat buyers who have endured poor service from a broker)

Thanks for your input and comments.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

But look at the long list of tasks Jonic has listed for what is a decent, but not excessive fee...

I spent a good while trying to sell my last boat privately, with limited success... And then took it to Jonic... He was thoroughly professional, unbelievably helpful, and helped me avoid people abusing my easy going attitude!

Most importantly, he offered me wise council throughout the process.

While I too have had a bad broker experience.. (ask Jonic, he knows the story!)... He did a great job of reminding me that its the person that counts, not the job title.

 

[jonic]

Hey John

So what do you get up to in the afternoon???

check it all again for good measure

customer is king in my book too.

 

[Glynny]

Hi, Thanks for this.

I am not saying that Jonic is a bad broker - but, from the response that I have had in PM's on this forum, it is very obvious that there is a big issue with brokers who do not do what they advertise as their service.
The whole industry needs tightening up to reduce or even remove the element of "unscrupulous dealings" by so-called expert brokers.
My friend is a teacher with some 18 years experience - she had to study for her qualifications, pass the many exams, do voluntary work in several schools, eventually achieving a job in a Junior school. 3 months later, OFSTED carried out a 3 day inspection of the school. The upshot of the inspection was that 3 of the teachers and some auxilliary staff were down-graded and eventually "pushed out" of the school due to bad practice and an unwillingness to adopt new procedures and up-skilling. Apparently, one of them was not even a teacher.

There are still Brokers out there who think they are doing you a favour. (This does not include Jonic)

Again, thanks for your comments and suggestions.

 

[Andie]

mmmmmmmm!
In my experience, I found a lovely boat and purchased her. However, the broker (.) I found to be completely rude!
During the negotiation process it was becoming extreamly hard to carry on with the purchase due to the unprofessional approach of the broker.
Needless to say that they did not get the bussiness of selling my existing boat !!!

 

[Glynny]

check it all again for good measure

customer is king in my book too.

John,

my comments have not been targeted at you. Your business website acknowledges that you have passion for your trade and many satisfied customers and you are fortunate to be able to enjoy this reputation (you have earned it, mate).
My gripe is with the other side of boat brokerage - the cowboy element who dwell on poor service and offer no after sales or professional advise. These are the recipients of my wrath.
Judging by the high number of PM's that I have had over the 24 hours that this thread has endured, it is very obvious that for every one of you doing a great job, there are several others who just skim the surface and then, run with the money.

John I am looking for a Fisher 30 or, a similar sized vessel to take me around the UK next year as a sponsored event to raise funds for disabled children who want to access watersports and sailing. If you should know of such a vessel that is worthy of such an adventure then, please let me know.

Again, thank you for your input to this thread.

 

[oldbilbo]

".....yacht broking is not advertising"

Perhaps not, but it seems to be rather effective at marketing!

Viz:

Does placing an ad on the internet

Check your title paperwork
Check your vat status paperwork
Check your RCD status paperwork
Check your registration paperwork
Recover lost paperwork or organise certified copies
Have real time knowledge of actual achieved selling prices in addition to asking prices
Write your boat's particulars in a way that sells
Photograph the boat professionally in a way that sells
Make a video of the boat in a way that sells
Email those details to registered active buyers looking for a boat like yours
Ring the buyer who has asked to be informed when a boat like yours comes up
Market your boat by telephone
Market your boat face to face
Market your boat on broker only websites like yachtworld.com
Market your boat at boatshows
Continuously look for PR opportunities for your boat
Pass your boat's details to a network of co-brokers in a different geographic location
Buy specific, targeted advertising on your behalf
Answer telephone enquiries about your boat
Answer email enquiries about your boat
Pick up viewers from the airport or train station
Take people to see your boat and demonstrate its features in a way that sells
Take people to see your boat who came in to look at another boat and suggest yours is more suitable
Prepare and air your boat before each viewing
Weed out the scammers and money launderers
Negotiate a price
Draw up a contract with conditions specific to you, the boat and the buyer
Hold the deposit securely for both sides
Carry insurance for both sides
Carry out a seatrial
Arrange the survey
Arrange the lift
Attend the survey
Negotiate with the surveyor and buyer after survey
Help with quotes and repairs recommend by the surveyor
Amend the contract with new terms after survey
Process the balance payment securely for both sides
Ensure title is passed correctly and draw up the Bill of Sale
Provide a new paper trail for both sides
Assist with registration and ships radio license transfer
Arrange finance
Arrange insurance
Help find a berth
Buy the drinks on handover?