Catamarans

Other considerations:
Maxim 380 (but not older than hull number 42. Hull number 1 - 41 have headroom and bridge-deck clearance issues). Exceptional build quality and very sporty. Internal space is limited for their size. Sadly they are no longer being built, so a 2nd hand one is your only option. They usually sell within a few weeks of being listed. (I am biased because I own one).
Admiral 38 or 40. Exception amount of saloon space.
Fusion 40
Leopard by Robertson & Caine but definitely NOT the 40 (Fatipa delivered one and the sailing performance was awful). I have heard this from other sources too.
 
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So waht about some thing like the Privilege 37, or more preferably the later 395? I like the look of the layout, but not sure how the central master berth works (it looks like a bit of a climb to get into).

Also, it seems the 395 is now out of production, which seams to be a short time from intro in 2004. The Lagoon 380 also looks good, but a bit more plasticy inside (BenJen I guess).

Going back to the original question a bit, what would you think the cruising speed of a Lagoon 380 or Privilege 37/95 would be and which is the preferable boat?

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I've done a couple of ocean passages (one transat) on Lagoon 380. I'd say quality is fine, the hulls do flex a bit but it seems to be part of the design. The vertical windows (which some people dislike so much) are ideal in the warmer climes as they slightly recessed and avoid over heating of the cabin.

Average speed was about 8 knots with winds between 10-25 knots, but yes that will depend on weight: whether you have a water maker & generator on board (with this one did, as well as a jet-rib, bicyles etc etc).
 
Sorry to say there is a very strong smell of BS around here. Don't be conned by those who would claim phenomenal passage speeds. Yes, some high speeds in good conditions but don't believe anyone who tries to tell you a cruising cat can make good 10 knots+ on a passage. Mine is no slouch - it's left Lagoons, FPs and Prouts for dead but I passage plan on 7 knots, 7.5 if it's off-wind.
 
I fear it's a bit like saying "how fast will a modern car go." It depends... However that' not a very useful reply, so here are some observations:

* Our Fountaine Pajot Belize will do 10kts in 22 apparent with the wind about 110. At 12kts we'll get more like 6. At 14 apparent it will be around 7kts (wind abeam again).

* A friends Lagoon 38 keeps up with us pretty well until we go to windward. At this point the Lagoon really gets set back by wave action. We can motor faster on one engine than they can with two at full chat.

* Another friend with a Lag 41 does much better, but again we consistently outsail and outmotor them - though not by a large margin.

* Outremer and Catana both make cats that are generally a lot faster than FPs, Lagoons, Broadblues etc. It no coincidence that these are daggerboard jobs.

* One of the challenges with cats is that you have a lot more volume to load up with stuff, but they are much more sensitive to weight. People I met with a Shuttleworth were getting really good speeds, but they were obsessive about weight - spartan interior, tiny dinghy etc. So it's partly a question of whether you want cruising comfort or speed.

Personally I'd never advocate a cat just for speed, but for all the other excellent reasons we won't go into here!
 
I must agree with Jeremy & Snowleopard here.
If you are banking on always being able to do 200+ mile days then forget it unless you have around £700k to spend on a Gunboat or other high tech epoxy built boat. Outremer is the next step down from these flying machines but don't even think about fitting toys such as Aircon/genny etc, they won't fit them as they are cruiser/racers. Older Catana's always had a good reputation but the newer ones have been slated for being too heavy and hence much lower performance.
Everything else on the market I would class as cruisers (including my own) some perform slightly better than others but we are talking a knot or so at best and only at certain points of sail. If you think you can point at 30deg then forget it, 40 to 45 deg is the best you will achieve. A Lagoon 440 completed the Arc in 13 and a bit days last year, I'm not sure how much it motorsailed but that still isn't bad going for a supposedly sedate charter barge.
Go and look at a website called Multihull Dynamics they do all the comparisons by the numbers. It costs a couple of quid to buy the data but if you seriously want to compare 2 cats then try them out ( I have no connection to this website).
Best of luck with your search and beware of heresay rather than fact.
Regards
Adaero
 
Broadblue make a bunch of cats and are based somewhere near Ipswich (I think) so you could perhaps take a look at one of them. I don't know how they sail but the brochure pictures are nice!
 
The danger with asking a sailor how fast his boat will go is that its a bit like asking him how big his to***r is or how many pints he can drink. Some of the answer above are very much looking on the "positive" side.

There is a huge difference between instantaneous speeds easily remembered by the owner, and average speeds in average conditions. I have a pal whose 27ft bilge keel mono regularly exceeds 10kn and he's an honest man. My boat never records anywhere near that yet we've never sailed together that I havent got there first being on a 34 footer. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

When I had a cat (Prout) I used to reckon on passage making at much the same speed as a Benny First and maybe 15 to 20% faster than a cruising mono. Thats an average of all points of sail and includes periods of motoring.

The Prout was an old design and fairly heavy so some modern but arguably less seaworthy French cats will maybe do better. That said a YMI friend of mine recently sailed the windies and panama on one such 40 footer, and found the performance to windward was dire fully loaded. Like 6 knots at best.

Instead of getting personal comments you might find it useful to look up data from the various cruising rallies. Have a look at some of the logs on http://www.worldcruising.com/worldarc/dailylogs.aspx

Speed in a cat will not necessarily feel fast or be enjoyable in the same way. Because you are on the level and further away from the water, they dont feel anything like as fast as a mono . Nor are they as much fun to sail, though IMHO much better ride and comfort. Moorings and berthing can be more difficult particularly for a big cat with a wide beam. And a minor matter - big cat = huge areas of boat to keep clean, antifoul etc.

Having done both types of boat I would always chose a cat for long distance cruising for comfort reasons. I would always chose a mono for day sailing weekends, the occasional holiday type use.
 
Thanks for all your input - a lot of interesting reponses.

I guess I will have to read a bit more, at this point it is just an idea we are investigating but as a long time sailor/short time moboer I have always thought I would return to sail at some point, but swmbo is not so keen to give up the space we have in the mobo, and she flatly refuses to have a boat that goes 'tippy tippy' (her words) so a cat seems like a good solution.

The other thing was if I was prepared to go back to taking all day to get from Chichester to Yarmouth - there is a certain appeal to travelling at 25knts you know. Ideally I would like a cat that can regularly, in the right conditions pace make at 10-12knts as a happy medium.

From what you guys are saying this discounts the 'cruising cats' from the likes of Lagoon and FP. I suppose it is look for something more focused or accept that 7-8knts is an acceptable speed with the occasion 10knt blast if the wind is right.

Anyway, food for thought and thanks for all the considered responses.

Jez
 
As I said I sailed a Priv 42 (1997 vintage) and was impressed. But then I prefer heavy weather stability and seakeeping to speed. To me it seemed a bit faster than the Prout range without sacrificing seakeeping. I don't like the forward stateroom on the latest boats but that's just preference.
All the boats from the same stable tend to be similar. Models may change but concepts don't. I would strongly advise avoiding anything with dagger boards though. It's not just the fact that they rattle or can be damaged, they are inherently unsafe in an ocean going cruising boat (as opposed to a racer that is always a calculation of risk anyway). One inherent safety feature of a cat with solid long low aspect ratio keels is that if she hits storm conditions she will side slip down big waves and run safely off downwind. Deep dagger boards can cause the leeward hull to "trip" and the windward hull to lift resulting in a pitchpole when the leeward bow digs in the next wave. Nasty! I have experience of this (sideslipping) in a Prout, and always feel safe in the knowledge that it's very difficult, if not impossible to reach this pitchpole danger point. The other thing to be wary of for the same reason is a very high beam to OAL ratio. Having experienced the Priv I think she would be similarly safe in extreme conditions. Thats not to say other boats are not safe. I have not sailed everything! I was frightened sh!tless on a very wide french tart of a boat in the channel in conditions that the Prout would give no concern in though. At one point on a reach the windward hull did in fact lift and drove the leeward bow under, but we pivoted around it and came downwind with a big slam. Lucky! The owner was of course a prize twassock and was carrying too much sail for the conditions (about 40 knots) but I think the Privelige or Prout would not have buried a bow but "slipped" off downwind. Finally length is everything. Much more so than monohulls. The performance below about 36 ft is generally not good although there are some good small boats around they all "hobbyhorse" a lot. At 36-40 ft it becomes more comfortable. At 45-50 ft it is superb and over that it feels like you are on the QE2! Do be aware of marina charges though. At over 40 ft it gets mighty expensive and difficult to single handed sail. I sail my P37 single handed a lot and it's fine. much bigger though and I wouldn't want to...
 
Quite so, Snowleopard.

My cat, a 32ft lightweight, daggerboard cruiser racer can do 15 knots on a reach and can do 8 plus knots to windward tacking through 95 to 100 degrees. But I passage plan at 6.5 knots max.
For offshore use the best performing cats are the Gunboats and Outremers followed by the Catanas. A 45ft Outremer or Gunboat could probably maintain 10 knots over a long passage but not much else could. A friend has a Lagoon 410 which he likes as much as a keen racing yachtsman can whose opted for the semi-liveaboard lifestyle. His top sustained speed is 15 knots but his fastest Biscay crossing averaged, I think, 7.5 knots. 200 miles a day is astonishingly hard to achieve in almost any boat.

Incidentally, Snowleopard, if was good to see you out on the water yesterday evening
 
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200 miles a day is astonishingly hard to achieve in almost any boat.

[/ QUOTE ]Not if TCM is the lunatic in charge and not if there is always at least one engine sitting on 2200 rpm.
 
Jez, sadly you have just missed the Catamaran boatshow in Gosport last month. 10 boats there and having walked around them all less the little F8 thingy which SWMBO wouldn't even consider /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif we thought the FP Mahe would be ideal for a couple and SWMBO very impressed and taken by the light airy feel, had difficulty getting her to put the cheque book away /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif well for a couple of years anyway. Finish looked very good even in the areas your not supposed to look at. The bigger Lagoons 440 and 420 looked huge, not polishing that lot.

Plan on taking them up on the offer of a test sail next year.

Pete
 
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So what did tcm average?

[/ QUOTE ]We did the 3000 miles in 15 days or at 8.33 knots or 200 miles per day on average.
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Did he cross the Atlantic?

[/ QUOTE ]He has done so three times now.
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Are there any public logs?

[/ QUOTE ]only for his latest crossing http://blogs.mailasail/mojomo
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Any info appreciated about this ex-stinkpot /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]He's a lunatic and was whooping and hollering like a septic when we hit 21knots in 45knots of wind. Myself, I shat myself and demanded that we reduced sail, which resulted in being asked if I was a man or a mouse. I have to admit that I am a mouse - especially 1000NM from the nearest helicopter and when I am with a skipper intent on finding the edge of the envelope.
 
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