Catalac 8m

If you are planning her as a keeper

I'd amend your budget or the ambitions, slightly

You will not want to be too severe with your instrumentation - and thinking of previous threads and your suggestion of cross Channel ventures - you might want to add AIS - and increasingly you might be looking at an MFD, rather than a tablet. But you could look at a small screen and WiFi the data to a larger screen (a tablet). We don't have AIS but our commercial traffic is not quite the intensity of that in The Channel.

I don't know the Catalac so take that into consideration

But many cats have small headsails (and are geared up for such) which are pretty useless off the wind and off the wind cats can be stunning - with a decent headsail. We changed from a self tacker to a 150% Genoa - and never looked back. But we did need to add tracks and cars, another sheet winch (we set up to cross sheet so we only needed one winch). We were lucky our cat was built with the necessary reinforcing built in. With the same reasoning consider a main with a big roach, you can reef down but you cannot 'add' extra square meters of sail when winds are light. If you experience a head wind your motors will be more than adequate - but I'd suggest just stay in bed, take up fishing or go for a walk. In a mono you can dodge the waves with 2 hulls its more difficult and a bit wetter. Unless you have a winning lottery ticket you might start to prioritise light wind sailing and the big main and big headsail will make all the difference. We also have screecher, on a prodder - which is the same size as the main. Our headsail os on a furler - but if we do need to beat - we replace the 150% with the self tacker.

I suspect you have, will have, mini keels - they are fine (you are not racing). They are surprisingly useful if you want to dry out and clean the hull + props :)

Now you will not want me to go into ground tackle.......:) - but you will be using a bridle (give yourself a chance - have bridle with elasticity) most bridles on cats are too short and too beefy.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

Sorry I forgot - have 3 reefs in the main - we do a lot of sailing with 3 reefs. Cats sail flat, sort of, they are impacted by waves like every other yacht - having essential control lines led back to the cockpit (and not at the mast) is something to think about.
 
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Thanks, Neeves.

AIS is a good idea if we do venture out of the Solent. I'll give some thought as to the best way to do it. The Catalac is a heavy beast, so I'm not too worried about being overpowered - if it's that windy, I reckon we shouldn't be out there! I don't know how many reefs she's set up for, but our current boat has two reefs, a first and a deep 2nd - a sort of a 2 1/2. I've used the 2nd a few times and never felt like I needed more. I won't be doing the sort of passages that mean I have to deal with what I get; if I don't like the forecast, I won't be going!

Lines aft are something I want. I've got them on Jissel, and wouldn't be without them, but thought I might be able to do them later if I ran out of budget. Clutches are silly money! However, I'm likely to be soloing on longer passages; If we do go to the French Canals, I'd be on my own to cross the Channel, and Milady would join me at Le Havre, so I'd certainly want to do them before that.

As for anchoring, there's a steel Danforth anchor that probably hasn't been used for 10 years; I dread to think what the chain will be like. Oh well, another bill! I'll be changing the anchor, but not sure what for yet. A Rocna would be nice, but a 10Kg Delta would be closer to my budget. I'm a great believer in snubbers so, yes, a stretchy triangle sounds right.

A big thank you to everyone else, too. We'll be seeing the current owners today, and will see if our castle in the air develops some foundations!
 
Delta? think Kobra. Its shank is a bit puny, though people on the forum have had no issues. Look out for cheap Fortress on eBay, forum members seem to find bargains.

We have jackstays down each sidedeck and then further jackstays from bow diagonally to the mast - simple stuff. Cats sit quite high out of the water, our ours feels it - you feel quite vulnerable in seas - so look at options to get control lines aft. You don't need reef one aft, but maybe 2 and 3 etc.

Whilst pottering around you don't need AIS - but if your ambitions are cross channel my comment is really buy now (or not) considering the implications for the future. If you are going to potter for 12 months - everything will be better, electronic wise, in a year's time.

Good luck, best wishes

Jonathan
 
Well, the dreadful deal is done, or at least agreed. They'll keep the boat for the summer, though it's unlikely they'll be going any further than between their mooring and the club pontoon, and we'll do the deal in September. Then the work starts!

Next question, where would you advertise a rather nice Snapdragon 24 for sale?
 
congratulations! Photos called for.

Apolloduck for your Snappy is a good start. Easy and cheap and gets good coverage.
 
I've got a 10kg delta on my 9m and it is no good in 'mud'. Its now a kedge, having been replaced by a 16kg rocna. If the anchor is an original Catalac one, it looks like a danforth but the flukes edges are different and a danforth won't fit the deck moulding. They are 'nice' boats and seem to look after the owners if they look after them. Every time I threaten to sell mine it costs me money to fix a fault !!
 
Stemar. Well I never. I thought you were happy with your snappy. Hope everything goes ahead and you try a different form of sailing. If you are planning to keep her for at least 10 years, equip the boat as you want it, sod the budget and take your time. My Fulmar I budgeted for £12K and to take 2 years, it is now over £25K and 7 years in and virtually finished. Still expect to be sailing her in 10 years time.
 
Boathook said:
I've got a 10kg delta on my 9m and it is no good in 'mud'. Its now a kedge, having been replaced by a 16kg rocna. If the anchor is an original Catalac one, it looks like a danforth but the flukes edges are different and a danforth won't fit the deck moulding. They are 'nice' boats and seem to look after the owners if they look after them. Every time I threaten to sell mine it costs me money to fix a fault !!
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In thin mud no anchor, including a Rocna, is any good - use a Fortress or if you are perverse a Danforth.

Yes Fortress chose the test seabed with care but look at their Chesapeake results - its on their website.

Panope is now doing hold tests - guess what he uses as his fixed anchor point - a Fortress.

This is his latest or one of the more recent vids.


He tests a few sizes of Bruce, all genuine. Its a bit tedious, very repetitive. Look at the beginning and then fast forward to around 10 minutes and he has a summary sheet. Take a note of the holds being developed, they are in lbs, the holds are a joke (by that I mean the anchors would not pull the skin of a rice pudding). But the results are simply what Fortress demonstrated - and Bruce is reputed to have been developed for mud. At the end of the vid he includes a Spade and Excel, they are on the spreadsheet - they also do not have a hold that would provide comfort overnight in any wind.

He does not define what he means by 'mud' - and its difficult to define anyway - but the anchors come up clean (largely) which implies to me - thin mud. It seems an odd choice of seabed for an early test on holding capacity. I'd have suggested clean sand - but maybe he has nothing locally.

Jonathan
 
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Concerto said:
Stemar. Well I never. I thought you were happy with your snappy. Hope everything goes ahead and you try a different form of sailing. If you are planning to keep her for at least 10 years, equip the boat as you want it, sod the budget and take your time. My Fulmar I budgeted for £12K and to take 2 years, it is now over £25K and 7 years in and virtually finished. Still expect to be sailing her in 10 years time.
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I was very happy with the Snappy - she's a great little boat, but Milady was starting to have difficulty moving around her, which set us looking to see what might make her life easier. We'd pretty much decided that a Konsort Duo would be perfect but, unfortunately, one we'd want to buy would be out of our price range so, OK, we'll give Jissel a bit of a refit and keep her. I'll sail somewhere and she'll meet me in the car.

Then, pretty much out of the blue, some friends decided that the time had come to swallow the anchor and offered us their Catalac that's hardly had the sails up in the last 10 years at a price that should allow us to get her into shape without breaking the bank. Milady loves her - it's far easier to negotiate the steps down into the hulls than Jissel's clamber over the engine and "bridge deck", and is already planning improvements. ( :eek: )

There are sails, but I suspect they're probably the originals. However, A Catalac isn't the sort of boat that puts a lot of stress on them, so a bit of restitching and recutting may be all they need. Even if they are baggy, for sailing off the wind, as long as they aren't rotten, they'll do for now.

The electrics definitely need a major sort out. Interior lighting's a bit basic, the nav lights don't work and, while there's a battery for each engine, there isn't a separate domestic battery - fewer usable amp hours than Jissel! There's a Furuno radar which may or may not work, but almost certainly won't integrate into any system I could get now, a whirly neon depth sounder that worked when it was last used, whenever that was and a log whose lens is practically opaque from UV damage and "only needs the impellor cleaning to work". Possibly. VHF? Present, but not correct. Plan A is to chuck it all out and get a set of NASA instruments and a tablet with Navionics or similar on it, unless I find a better second hand setup. I've no idea what VHF I'll get. AIS would definitely be a nice to have, but a quick google suggests that a "cheapy" standalone device is more expensive than the Standard Horizon VHF with AIS and GPS built in - WTF?

Solar will be a must, as we're on a swinging mooring, so I'll be looking for advice to set that up on three separate battery banks, likewise split charging from two alternators, but it's too soon for more than back of envelope stuff now. Likewise, LiFePo batteries. Are we at the point where they're worth while for a boat like this, or should I stick with flooded lead acid - so many things to consider!

Anyway, enough wittering for now. The next job is to get some photos of Jissel and find a new home for her. Anybody want to buy a Snapdragon?
 
If you are going tablet then AIS using a quark receiver and wi fi is probably the way to go. On batteries for your kind of use AGMs are probably the way to go for the house - my boat has the automotive types designed for stop start which are priced nearer leisure FLAs and much cheaper than 2marine" AGMs. Longer life than FLA faster craging and slower self discharge. will outlast you 10 year time horizon. Plenty of room on a Catalac for solar panels to keep them topped up.
 
Thanks - that Quark gadget looks very interesting. I've a sneaking feeling I'm going to learn far more than I wanted to about wifi integration on a boat! I know that the more recent NASA kit can output NMEA sentences of some kind, so I wonder if there's a wifi adaptor.

I'll also look at those automobile AGM batteries. I'd only really seen the ones with the marine tax, so had discounted them.
 
Plenty of people upgrade to new instruments and sell off their old ones fairly cheap. Nothing wrong with second hand gear and it comes far cheaper than new. My own stuff is in excess of 25 years old and have got me around both sides of the channel comfortably
 
We have had our 8 M since 2003. Done around 15k NM, about 30% under power/motor sailing. Many trips to Eire, IOM and up & down the Irish Sea. Based Fareham since 2009 & S.coastal sailing only mostly West country/IOScilly. No x channel (2 dogs). I think you will be thrilled with the space and comfort of the 8M under way or at anchor. It is surprising how less demanding it is physically to sail a cat than a monohull and is a real bonus for older and less mobile sailors of either sex. Really nice to sit up in bed with a cup of tea and watch the scenery and the world go by rather than buried deep in a monohull. Yes they do not point as well as a good sailing boat but as a cruising boat without deadlines work very well.
The top of the wheelhouse make an excellent position for a couple of solar panels, mine are 2x80W but I wish I had gone for bigger ones perhaps 120 that should fit.
The build quality is generally very good but the layup is a bit variable in thickness although the minimum is more than some modern boats.
There are one or two unusual things of concern that I think need attention and positioning an anchor windlass so that chain falls nicely is an irritation.
I like the thought of 2x20hp but I would wonder about the trim due to the weight of those aft although my original water tanks aft were 2x20 gallons/200 lbs each so re-positioning the tankage should solve most of the weight distribution. I would assume the tankage now to be in the bilges?
The wheelhouse is not the prettiest but it really does work well and visibility is excellent all around.
When I stripped all the old antifoul and paint from the hull in 2003 to epoxy the hull (28 years old then) there was no osmosis whatsoever.
Many 8 &9 M Catalacs have had a wooden safety rail fitted around the cockpit which gives good security from going over the side as the comings are quite low.
I wish you the best of luck with the electrics, mine has wires that disappear and mostly emerge in the right places but is a bit disoncerting not knowing the run of the wires.
I have done a lot of work on my boat and although I would not describe myself as a catalac expert I do know as much as most about the 8m and I have sailed a fair bit on a 9m.
The later boats with the fixed rudders and skegs are more directionally stable, mine is an ealy boat hull 08/1975 and does tend to wander a little.
 
Thanks for the encouragement! The ability to see out from inside (not really below!) is one of the big plusses for Milady.

This one balances quite well in spite of the twin engines because they're set quite well forward, in the P & S lockers at the forward end of the cockpit.

There isn't a wheelhouse/doghouse, just a canvas sprayhood that covers the entrance to the saloon, but part of my musing and rambling before we've even got the boat is the idea of a full doghouse in GRP stretching the full width of the cabin. While I'm dreaming, since I haven't figured out where the instruments should go, I'm musing over building an instrument console into it. The doghouse would indeed make a good place for solar panels; an alternative would be on the hatch garage, which is where my current boat has them
 
My 8m did not have a wheelhouse or a sprayhood when I got her, or even guard wires and that felt very exposed. I had nearly finished a full width mould for a GRP wheel house in 2008 when I saw a wheelhouse for sale in Fareham and as a quick fix bought that and bolted it in position although I had to make a hatch garage as they wanted the hatch tp go with a full width spayhood. I chopped up the mould not long ago although in retrospect a full width wheelhouse might have been too much windage?
Good luck with it, I am sure you will enjoy "flat" sailing!
 
The god pod.

Slightly bigger cat, 38' x 22' 6" and we built a foam and glass wheel house limited to only over the helm. We built it at home, making up panels, trying them for fit (for the complex shapes at the joint). Once we had 2 panels we then started to fit the panels together until we had the whole doghouse. We dry assembled on the boat then took it home, again (lots of toing a froing) and glassed it together. Once it was one piece - it became more difficult to manage.

We used packing tape round the joint, buttered a layer of filled resin on the top of the tape and dropped the wheelhouse onto the resin (two person job to drop it in the correct place) and let it set off. We then lifted the whole thing - with a perfect joint.

Took it home again, ground down the joint but left an overlap/flange as we wanted to screw, every 150mm, it down. We cut the holes for the windows, glassed the edges of the windows. I built a spray tent inside my workshop to spray it up, using a cheap Aldi spray gun. All the big windows open, hinged, the large side window at the sidedeck has a lift out window - making a door (you can slide into the seat from the sidedeck or climb up from the 'inside' of the cockpit. When finished we attached using white silicone (which showed a lack of confidence on whether we would like it) and screwed it to the cabin roof. The forward window was also lift out, not hinged. We recently changed it and using an acrylic hinge allow it to open by simply lifting up - this means we can control the airflow (or wind) and we have a cover for the window to keep the glare from the sun a bit more muted.

Bending the roof panel was easy, just bend the foam to the desired curve, hold down with battens, and once glassed, one side, it holds the shape allowing the other side to be glassed.

We have 2 flexible solar panels on the curved roof, 2 x 50 watts and wired them recessed through the structure. We have 350 watts total flexible panels, we could usefully use more (but that I suspect is a common issue - blame Parkinson).

Don't get any idea you are 'building' something most of the time is fairing.

Its not the prettiest of devices - but it keeps us out of the sun and rain.

When completed and even though it was only over the wheel, to starboard, it was quite big and ungainly to move around. Fortunately we only live 300m from our dinghy storage so we could lash it to the roof for transport. You would need a trailer for a long journey. It did fit in, or on, the dinghy - but only just. It was not particularly heavy - just ungainly.

We would do it again - it was well worth the effort. At watch on a grotty night no need for foul weather gear - just fleece. Its a one person (one seat only) wheelhouse. A second person can stand behind and look forward, or sit on the sidedeck if the weather is good (often). We did not want the wheelhouse to impinge on cockpit space.

The design is constrained by what you already have. We certainly did not want to be cutting bits of the original mouldings. Where the dog/wheel house fits were 2 short handrails. We took them off and attached to the doghouse in roughly the same location. They make climbing from the cockpit to the side decks easier. I reinforced the build where the 2 rails were to fit, extra glass, and built 10mm aluminium plates into the structure, tapped into the plates and bolted the rails securely. I also had extra glass to support the roof, in case we ever inadvertently stood on the roof. The height of the doghouse was dictated by the boom location and I was concerned that during reefing the boom would smash the doghouse. I have the topping lift secured such that the boom just clears the doghouse roof and allows confortable access to the boom (when tidying up the main)

We have the big side lift out window and two wash boards for the walk through transoms (stops grandchildren falling overboard and following seas running through the cockpit). We made a bag from an old sail which is strung across the transom, between the hulls, into which these 3 flat object neatly fit.

The other constraint is the weather - you need clear runs of good weather, easier where we are than where you are.

Jonathan
 
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