CAT ignition switches - can you have 2?!

[jrudge]

The boat is a Squadron 65 with 2 x cat C18 and 2 helms.

The question ...

The ignition switches are on the lower helm. You have to turn them off as otherwise the engine fans will run, but if you are on the flybridge and it is time to go home, you have to head downstairs to turn on the switches and then up again. Not a disaster but just seems daft.

This could be for security ( but if they want to steal it I can't see this stopping them), a Cat "feature" or simply not including that option.

Does anyone know if I can have a second set of keys on the Flybridge?

 

[rafiki_]

I have Cat 3126's on my Azi 39, and it is the same installation. I can start and stop the engines from the Fly, but need to shut them down from the downstairs helm. Not sure if this is a Cat issue or just how some builders specify them?

 

[henryf]

It's good practice because generally you have more comprehensive instrumentation on the lower helm. Starting in particular allows you to check everything is in order.

At the end of the day if you are leaving the boat then you are probably going to flick a few isolators off, in our case the electrics are on the side on the lower helm position so everything is close together.

Finally CAT have manual overrides which will be located at the lower helm position so this is seen as the master.

Exposed ignition switches are not a great idea as it is not unknown to have water ingress power up or even start machinery.

Henry

 

[MapisM]

you have to head downstairs to turn on the switches and then up again.

I don't get that.
Do you mean that you must go downstair to cut the contacts with the keys (and possibly remove them), as rafiki says?
If so, afaik that's pretty much a standard setup, regardless of engine brand.
But why do you NEED to go up again afterwards, in your boat?

PS: ops, sorry.

In hindsight, I guess you meant that if you are on the f/b and want to drop the hook, turn everything off, have drinks or whatever, and then turn everything on again before leaving, you can't do all that without leaving the f/b.
In which case, you are right, it's a (minor) design restriction.
Otoh, I suppose you must have someone onboard who go down to release/lock the anchor.
Why not instruct him/her to turn the keys off/on, while he/she is at that?

Anyhow, to answer your Q, I can't think of an easy way to have two sets of keys totally independent.
You can neither use a parallel nor a serial connection, for very obvious reasons, therefore you would need some electronic trick, similarly to the throttles.
Not sure it's worth adding such complexity and a potential reliability issue....

 

[jfm]

Yup my boat is set up the same way, as were previous boats. Both Cat and Volvo. On a sunny day, after anchoring, ypu might just want to stay on the flybridge but someone has to go to lower helm to turn the keys off, else the engine fans still run and they're too noisy in a quiet anchorage

For the reliability and control logic issues mentioned above I wouldn't fit second keys on the flybridge. What I have considered doing, but not got around to it, is to take the wire that senses "ignition on" and energizes the relays for the e/r fans, and connected it to an "engines running" sense point as opposed to an ignition on sense point. THAT should be possible, indeed quite easy, if you had the wiring diagrams.

Note, there is (according to normal Fairline practice) a switch on the dash to operate the fans manually, with no ignition or engines running, so if you did this mod you would still have the ability to run the fans with the engines off

But I never got round to this; it's item 200+ on my jobs list. I have an internal staircase [/smug!] so it is easy for me to run from upper to lower helm

 

[jrudge]

SO using a sledge hammer to crack a nut all I now need is an internal stair case!

Lets see. Cut a big hole to the left of the helm, step ladder from B and Q and a bit of Kitchen sealant -should only take a few hours!

The fan idea is possible. I does not bother me that much just seems lousy design - did not know all FB boats were the same thought is was a CAT problem. Running up and down the steps will keep the kids fit. My 4 year old did turn off the port engine power supply whilst we were docking which caused the engine to go into idle ... little bugger! Dad turned if off and restarted thinking it had gone into a funny mode ... the clue was I could not start it when i noticed what he had done!


Thx for the replies. I did not know if there was a std CAT kit for second switches - I would rather not monkey patch.

 

[MapisM]

Note, there is (according to normal Fairline practice) a switch on the dash to operate the fans manually, with no ignition or engines running, so if you did this mod you would still have the ability to run the fans with the engines off

By "a" switch on the dash, I guess you mean just one, turning on/off both the port and stbd fans, correct?
Which in turn means that both sides are also turned on/off automatically upon key contact, I suppose?

I'm saying this because I like the option to turn on/off separately each side, depending on where the sea is coming from, in order to minimize the ingress of salty air in the e/r. But this setup requires:
a) e/r fans man enough to cope with their job also when running just half of them (which arguably is a good thing anyway), and
b) a manual only operation, which I accept could be considered a drawback from anyone not so keen on preflight checklists...

Otoh, if you would agree with the above train of thoughts, and if your fans comply with a) above, you might find it easier to just add a second switch, separate the two sides, and get rid of the automatic connection.
Btw, it's mostly when going at D speed that you might (on a P boat) get more salty spray through the fans, which means that even if the fans are designed to have both sides running when the engines are screaming, it's quite likely than just one side is more than enough while pootling...

 

[jrudge]

The fans are either on or off (across all of the Fairline range I think) and run on a timer once the ignition is turned off - but for a short period - circa 10 seconds. The fan over ride I am pretty certain works regardless of the ignition switch setting as long as the main power is on - so you can run them to cool the engine room if you wish - which is useful if working in there when they have been running.

 

[rafiki_]

I'm pretty sure the fans on my Snazi turn off with the ignition switch, which I turn off asap due the alarm buzzer that is quite strident!

 

[jfm]

SO using a sledge hammer to crack a nut

Ha ha, but the sledgehammer that is the internal staircase doesn't merely crack the nut that is engine room fans. It also smashes the monster of people circulation, access between helms, and food serving on the flybridge

 

[jfm]

By "a" switch on the dash, I guess you mean just one, turning on/off both the port and stbd fans, correct?
Which in turn means that both sides are also turned on/off automatically upon key contact, I suppose?

I'm saying this because I like the option to turn on/off separately each side, depending on where the sea is coming from, in order to minimize the ingress of salty air in the e/r. But this setup requires:
a) e/r fans man enough to cope with their job also when running just half of them (which arguably is a good thing anyway), and
b) a manual only operation, which I accept could be considered a drawback from anyone not so keen on preflight checklists...

Otoh, if you would agree with the above train of thoughts, and if your fans comply with a) above, you might find it easier to just add a second switch, separate the two sides, and get rid of the automatic connection.
Btw, it's mostly when going at D speed that you might (on a P boat) get more salty spray through the fans, which means that even if the fans are designed to have both sides running when the engines are screaming, it's quite likely than just one side is more than enough while pootling...

Fairline do this very nicely: the fans are linked, ie they function as a single group, subject to one thing. So turning on one switch on the dash activates all the fans in manual mode. Turning on either of the two ign keys activates all the fans. That makes for great automatic convenience. But then on the Sq78 there is a switch panel with 8 switches, one for each fan. You can manually and indiviadually switch off any fan you choose. So you can switch off the 4 fans on one side of the boat to manage the spray thing, if you want. That is standard Fairline, and on my boat there is then an upgrade whereby you can also close the intake louvres on one side of the boat electrically if you wish, to block out the spray even more. I gotta say, I have never used any of these features!

As regards the electric closing louvres, their principal function is of course to close automatically in the event of e/r fire and to close when the boat is anchored (if you want...) or berthed (always, unless you manually override that)

 

[BartW]

our old boat with MAN engines has engine "start" and "stop" push buttons on the upper and the lower helm,
but has "contact" key switches only on the lower helm.

I have a anoying situation fe when we have dropped divers on a dive spot, and are waiting and floating above the dive spot.
and doing the surface surveillance from the FB
during that time I switch off the engines, but alway's need to go down, to switch off the key switch on the lower helm.

I need to switch them off, because else there is a anoying alarm buzzer,
and secondly the hour counter on the engines keeps on running (don't asc me how I know this ;-) )
our E/R fans are not connected to this

I'm planning to install 2 x "Pulse" relay's in series with the contact key switches,
and push buttons on the upper and the lower helm dash,
so that I have sort of a "key" switch from both helm positions.
I have the parts here on the boat, but need to find some time to install them

 

[MapisM]

on my boat there is then an upgrade whereby you can also close the intake louvres....

Wow, chapeaux.
I've only seen that before in boats designed for ocean crossing, capable to self right after capsizing, hence with the automatic intake closure triggered by either the fire estinguishing system or an inclinometer, go figure...!
I suppose it isn't an option normally offered by FL, but rather one your five hundreds or whatever customizations?

 

[jfm]

Wow, chapeaux.
I've only seen that before in boats designed for ocean crossing, capable to self right after capsizing, hence with the automatic intake closure triggered by either the fire estinguishing system or an inclinometer, go figure...!
I suppose it isn't an option normally offered by FL, but rather one your five hundreds or whatever customizations?

Yup, it is a special on my list of 500, not a normal option. There are three electric stainless steel louvre panels each side of the e/room covering both the air intake and the hot air out take. They are not wired to inclinometers but there's an idea

Actually I think they are more common than you say. Iirc tcm's leopard sport 23 had them and wasn't an ocean boat. They're not common on fairprinseekferretazimut though

 

[MapisM]

I'm planning to install 2 x "Pulse" relay's in series with the contact key switches, and push buttons on the upper and the lower helm dash, so that I have sort of a "key" switch from both helm positions.

Clever idea.
Did you already check how many wires are there behind each key switch, and how the respective contacts get closed or opened by turning the key?
I wouldn't be surprised if the key actually closes some contacs and opens some others.

 

[MapisM]

They are not wired to inclinometers but there's an idea

LOL, yeah, but shouldn't you also change all the glasses?
I don't think they're strong enough to withstand the pressure upside down...

You might well be right about the Leopard.
I've never been on one, but I know for sure that at Cantieri Arno there were some proper maniacs...