Castlemartin and Manobier Ranges

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RAP77

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I was hoping to go from Tenby to Milford Haven.
This goes right through the firing ranges, to avoid them it would entail a 40+ nm diversion. The Castlemartin range is huge and it seems that they fire every day (0900 - 1600) except weekends.
Even going inshore it is 17 odd nm say 2-3 hrs if I motor.
This is surely unreasonable, how do local sailors cope?
 
RAP77 said:
I was hoping to go from Tenby to Milford Haven.
This goes right through the firing ranges, to avoid them it would entail a 40+ nm diversion. The Castlemartin range is huge and it seems that they fire every day (0900 - 1600) except weekends.
Even going inshore it is 17 odd nm say 2-3 hrs if I motor.
This is surely unreasonable, how do local sailors cope?
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I was faced with the same problem this time last year and also find these restrictions unreasonable. There seems to be more than enough of the country tied up with military ranges. We chose to go on a Saturday to avoid problems but even on a Bank Holiday weekend, found Manobier to be active. Eventually we agreed to maintain best speed and sailed through. I understand Castlemartin range boat can be particularly vociferous with intruding boats however the right is yours if you so choose to exercise it.
 
aowen said:
I was faced with the same problem this time last year and also find these restrictions unreasonable. There seems to be more than enough of the country tied up with military ranges. We chose to go on a Saturday to avoid problems but even on a Bank Holiday weekend, found Manobier to be active. Eventually we agreed to maintain best speed and sailed through. I understand Castlemartin range boat can be particularly vociferous with intruding boats however the right is yours if you so choose to exercise it.
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They got heavy with us first time out, we negotiated a modified course. Another time we heard a boat leave Milford, told the guard he didnt have to do as they said, he was going! Was followed by a stream of "our boys are at war, you carry on, selfish, yaddy yaddy!"
S
 
Live firing areas and opportunities are few and far between for most gun crews without being further curtailed by inconvenienced leisure sailors. As a former permanent staff member at Manorbier (involved with range safety at both locations) I am aware of the amount of long term planning and commitment that goes into firing sessions on those ranges - and the impact (incl. cost) of lost sessions. For the record the range at Lulworth plus other Channel exercise areas impact on my leisure sailing but I accomodate the inconvenience as do the majority of skippers.
 
RAP77 said:
I was hoping to go from Tenby to Milford Haven.
This goes right through the firing ranges, to avoid them it would entail a 40+ nm diversion. The Castlemartin range is huge and it seems that they fire every day (0900 - 1600) except weekends.
Even going inshore it is 17 odd nm say 2-3 hrs if I motor.
This is surely unreasonable, how do local sailors cope?
Click to expand...

It's a big range and a small shell. The chances of one hitting you are pretty low I'd have thought. If you're lucky they'll aim for you and then you'll 100% safe. :p:p:p
 
AHoy2 said:
Live firing areas and opportunities are few and far between for most gun crews without being further curtailed by inconvenienced leisure sailors. As a former permanent staff member at Manorbier (involved with range safety at both locations) I am aware of the amount of long term planning and commitment that goes into firing sessions on those ranges - and the impact (incl. cost) of lost sessions. For the record the range at Lulworth plus other Channel exercise areas impact on my leisure sailing but I accomodate the inconvenience as do the majority of skippers.
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It would be a help if the actual firing schedule was published. I have been diverted round Lulworth many times and there was no firing going on.
I think Castlemartin is an aerial firing range Why not go 50 miles out to sea?
 
Castlemartin is the main range in UK for firing tank weapons. Castlemartin is the air defence range. The missiles being fired there will, if they do not hit the target and detonate, go on for some considerable distance......

Having had to suspend firing on numerous occasions on coastal ranges until a vessel (usually a leisure sailor) has cleared the danger area it really annoyed me, to put it mildly. Live weapon firing is the end point of a lot of dry training, even if it's only using small arms. Range time is limited as there aren't enough ranges to go round, so losing half a mornings shooting because someone couldn't be bothered to sail a bit further offshore is infuriating. And it is difficult if not impossible to make up the range time at a later date, especially when the training is part of the work up to an operational deployment. Often it means that weekends have to be sacrificed to make good the time, along with the additional hassle to sailors because the range opens at the weekend as well as during the week.
That said, you should be thankful that the range safety craft are not allowed to do more than chide you for intruding into the danger area. In Turkey at a firepower demonstration, the patrol boat keeping the danger area clear fired warning shots across the bow of an intruding yacht: never seen a faster crash gybe.
 
Personally, find the detour I have to make to avoid Portland Bill very inconvenient. But I accept it because it goes with having the freedom to roam the seas as I choose. I also regard the detour to avoid the Lulworth Ranges as inconvenient but I accept that in the same spirit as Portland. It goes with the freedom I enjoy in this country.
And those that are not happy with it might spare a thought for the soldiers, who are training for battle and probably paraded very early in the morning, who than have to stand around while a boat crosses the danger area - only to have another one enter just as the first clears it.
Finally, the fact that you do not see rounds falling does not mean they are not firing. Unfortunately shells are not always perfectly behaved; sometimes they bounce, they fail to detonate on impact their propellant charges may behave in unexpected ways. It has even been known for somebody to make a mistake - not often and the systems are designed to trap such mistakes. It is for those reasons that ranges have such large safety areas most of which will not see a round - ever!
 
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pugwash94 said:
Personally, find the detour I have to make to avoid Portland Bill very inconvenient. But I accept it because it goes with having the freedom to roam the seas as I choose. I also regard the detour to avoid the Lulworth Ranges as inconvenient but I accept that in the same spirit as Portland. It goes with the freedom I enjoy in this country.
And those that are not happy with it might spare a thought for the soldiers, who are training for battle and probably paraded very early in the morning, who than have to stand around while a boat crosses the danger area - only to have another one enter just as the first clears it.
Finally, the fact that you do not see rounds falling does not mean they are not firing. Unfortunately shells are not always perfectly behaved; sometimes they bounce, they fail to detonate on impact their propellant charges may behave in unexpected ways. It has even been known for somebody to make a mistake - not often and the systems are designed to trap such mistakes. It is for those reasons that ranges have such large safety areas most of which will not see a round - ever!
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I was that soldier on a number of occasions. Of course rather than sitting around getting a brew on it's usually kit on and run up and down any visible incline.
 
grumpy_o_g said:
It's a big range and a small shell. The chances of one hitting you are pretty low I'd have thought. If you're lucky they'll aim for you and then you'll 100% safe. :p:p:p
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The last time I was at Castlemartin we were firing 120 mm. How big are the sail patches you carry on board.
 
Hi speed missile firing upto the end of May - I have to go out and around the west of the Range - it’s 12 miles out - luckily I am going south so minor inconvenience
 
RAP77 said:
I was hoping to go from Tenby to Milford Haven.
This goes right through the firing ranges, to avoid them it would entail a 40+ nm diversion. The Castlemartin range is huge and it seems that they fire every day (0900 - 1600) except weekends.
Even going inshore it is 17 odd nm say 2-3 hrs if I motor.
This is surely unreasonable, how do local sailors cope?
Click to expand...
Go after 4pm.

Not always british squaddies there. Range is used by other countries too! Shut it, i say.
 
I once had to delay for Castlemartin firing and in a small and hence slowish sailing boat it set up a series of missing tide, wind increasing, and general unpleasantness. But they do have to practice....
 
The rules are clear. The ranges are not prohibited areas on the charts and you have the right of free passge. This was confirmed to me by UKHO, so you can wave two fingers at the range boats and simply carry on.

That said if you arent in a hurry and conditions allow, its only fair to let them play soldiers and move out of their way.

Never mind the Turks, the froggies dont stop firing either.

Incidentally, rae they such bad shots that they cant carry on and miss you anyway, or do we let the Yanks use the ranges?;)
 
If you keep 5 miles off the coast, it is very unlikely that they bother you; if they want you to go further out, they will contact you on vhf ch 16. If you phone them, normally there is a recorded message regarding firing times; in the main, they dont fire before 9 am and after 4 pm and weekends; however, check it out.
 
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