Carry on Anchoring' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

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Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

Apologies /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif for my comments ealier .... I thought you were 'taking the Michael' as I used a bad search engine looking for a spade anchor and nothing came up therfore and due to the raspberry faces you posted thought you literally meant a 'spade' ...lols /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Have since found 'spade anchors'
Sorry you were /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

No problems, you were right anyway, my post was tongue-in-cheek...
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

Very interesting so far taking all comments on board.. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If I can get the shakle off that would help as it would be easier to use, but still, If I dont need to use it would prefer one easier to handle.

By the way I have a danforth which I lay as a kedge (when very shallow and or drying out for a period of time) which I am using as my main anchor at the moment.

I will see what weight the cqr is later but will ask in a chandlery for anchor/boat info (If they sell them I sssume they should have a chart for refernce)
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

Thought as much /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif will get u back sometime..lols
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

An anchor that is too large is bad for you, the boat and anchoring.

Its bad for you 'cos the way you are deploying it you could cause yourself an injury, to your back or fingers with that nasty hinge thing on a CQR.

All the extra weight is bad for the trim of the boat (bow heavy)

CQR anchors are reputed to be poor at setting, if the anchor is too big it could be your engine does not have enough grunt in reverse to set it properly. It could be its only the weight of the anchor keeping you in place!

I'd be inclined to go and see your friendly local chandler, I'm sure you know one /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, and select a suitable sized Delta anchor together with a Kong connector.
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

[ QUOTE ]
If I can get the shakle off that would help

I will see what weight the cqr is later but will ask in a chandlery for anchor/boat info

[/ QUOTE ]

You will be able to get the sackle off - it's a question of whether you have to destroy it to do it, so have a new connector standing by.

If you dont know how heavy your anchor is, how can you think it's too big for the boat - unless it just feels that way?

You may feel better about the anchor when you get a new connector and dont have to heave it past the roller.

If you provide the anchor weight, bot type, and weight if you know it, there will almost certainly be a web reference for recommended anchor weight for your boat.

Cheers

Richard
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

[ QUOTE ]
------- So always choose the heaviest one you can manage. -----

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. How come Fortress come out very well in most tests, when they are always the lightest? And how does a 50 lb fisherman compare with a 25 lb Delta? Probably not very well, dependent upon the bottom.


[/ QUOTE ]

vyv you did quote me out of context. I referred to anchors of the same type not the old argument about certain designs working better than heavier ones of another type.

I would suggest that whether an anchor pulls out or not is more to do with it's shape and size rather than it's weight. That is if you can get it to dig in in the first place. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

You don't say what size your CQR is, or what sort of cruising and anchoring you do, but a 6kg Delta on chain should do the job fine in most circumstances around the Solent. That's what we use on a 27 footer. We've kept the 25lb CQR on board just in case, but I doubt we'll ever use it. Whilst bigger might be better in terms of cross sectional area, you can't really compare different designs on the basis of weight. So a more modern, lighter, high performance anchor is probably what you want.
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

[ QUOTE ]
Whilst bigger might be better in terms of cross sectional area, you can't really compare different designs on the basis of weight.

[/ QUOTE ]Of course you can. Here you go...

Direct comparison:
wm_testing_chart_orig.gif


On a weight-for-weight basis:
wm_testing_chart_740w.jpg


See?

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
So a more modern, lighter, high performance anchor is probably what you want.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree with that bit, but how does the Delta fit in again?

wm-catalog-table-testing.gif


/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

If you want to improve catenary, send down an angel weight. I have W Pentland ketch with a 35lb CQR & 90' chain, with stretchy non-floating warp as extension if needed (don't remember ever using this). Angel is a 4" section of 6" steel bar with half a link of chain welded to it. It is fastened round the anchor chain with a large bow shackle & lowered down the chain with a nylon warp. I usually let it lie just on the sea bed so chain is horizontal on sea bed & virtually vertical to boat. Strong winds or big waves will lift it but pull on anchor remains horizontal. as a suplementary benefit, the angel damps out snatch making the boat quieter and reducing risk of anchor being jerked.
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

I am not at the boat today so will go in the morning and get the weight of both. and report back in the morning.
Learning lots /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

[ QUOTE ]
If you want to improve catenary, send down an angel weight. I have W Pentland ketch with a 35lb CQR & 90' chain, with stretchy non-floating warp as extension if needed (don't remember ever using this). Angel is a 4" section of 6" steel bar with half a link of chain welded to it. It is fastened round the anchor chain with a large bow shackle & lowered down the chain with a nylon warp. I usually let it lie just on the sea bed so chain is horizontal on sea bed & virtually vertical to boat. Strong winds or big waves will lift it but pull on anchor remains horizontal. as a suplementary benefit, the angel damps out snatch making the boat quieter and reducing risk of anchor being jerked.

[/ QUOTE ]Kellets:
www.rocna.com/boat-anchors/kellets.php

While I'm at it, since chain was mentioned, although I'm not really sure what the OP wants:
www.rocna.com/boat-anchors/catenary.php
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

Craig,

My bow roller won't take a Rocna because the roll bar would foul on the bowsprit. The Spade won't fit either.

So what would you recommend I use?

You wouldn't consider designing a Rocna without the roll bar would you?
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

right...I have weighed the anchors /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
The danthorth type is 17kg and the cqr has no markings but is heavier maybe 20kg.

So.. although maybe too much for my yacht in fair winds they will be good if I ever get caught out in stronger winds .

... will grind off nasty big shakle so it is easier to handle (20kg not a prob if you dont have to manoever around rollers) and put smaller/lighter hi tech anchor on (growing) wish list. Oh ... and according to Will H... will need to go on a scuba diving course so I can dive down and check how its sitting /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif cheers all
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

I,m with you Steve, don,t care much about the weight or design (within limits), but the secret is catenary, if you haven,t any you won,t stay put! Bill.
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

[ QUOTE ]
I,m with you Steve, don,t care much about the weight or design (within limits), but the secret is catenary, if you haven,t any you won,t stay put! Bill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely, when it's blowing 50 knots, the chain/rode is bar tight, with no catenary and, hopefully, you stay put. The length of the rode needs to be such that the angle of pull at the anchor is less than the angle at which it would release.

I've not done the sums, but i guess a triangle with sides of say, 56m, 56m +/- and 8m, has a pretty small angle at the anchor.

Sounds a bit pedantic - not meant to be - more inquisitive.

Richard
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

ooooops hic
corerection 17ilbs and 20lbs ...hic
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

[ QUOTE ]
Craig,
My bow roller won't take a Rocna because the roll bar would foul on the bowsprit.

[/ QUOTE ]The Spade is the best alternative.

[ QUOTE ]
The Spade won't fit either.

[/ QUOTE ]If the Spade won't fit, what else will? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[ QUOTE ]
So what would you recommend I use?

[/ QUOTE ]Modify the roller. We see them designed all the time for undersized CQRs and nothing else. It can often be done very cost effectively; e.g. just dropping the roller down on extended cheek plates can be very easy to do and will drop the Rocna's roll-bar low enough for it not to foul.

More sophisticated mods you can get an idea of by looking at a white paper on a Tayana 37, which has the same problem:
www.rocna.com/distributable/tayana_37_bow_roller.pdf

[ QUOTE ]
You wouldn't consider designing a Rocna without the roll bar would you?

[/ QUOTE ]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Carry on Anchoring\' ...Does Size Really Matter ?

[ QUOTE ]
Surely, when it's blowing 50 knots, the chain/rode is bar tight, with no catenary and, hopefully, you stay put. The length of the rode needs to be such that the angle of pull at the anchor is less than the angle at which it would release.

I've not done the sums, but i guess a triangle with sides of say, 56m, 56m +/- and 8m, has a pretty small angle at the anchor.

Sounds a bit pedantic - not meant to be - more inquisitive.

Richard

[/ QUOTE ]That's a 7:1 scope and gives an angulation of 8.2 degrees above horizontal when taught. There's little appreciable benefit above about 8:1.
 
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