VicS
Well-Known Member
I ask once again, why is Yngmar in post #11 getting off scot-free when this was his train of thought rather than mine? He even specifically asked for an opinion.
Richard
Polly's Kettle replied to that.
Carbon monoxide detectors
- Thread starter Mctavish
- Start date
Polly's Kettle replied to that.
RichardS
N/A
VicS
Well-Known Member
The same Polly's Kettle who has bought 4 detectors the same as mine?
Richard
I dont know what detector you have, only that you bought it in Argos
i dont know what detectors PK has bought
I dont know how you know what detectors PK has bought
BSSOffice
Well-Known Member
BSSOffice
Well-Known Member
Alarms tested to BS EN 50291-2; take account of the marine environment such as wider temperature variations, greater humidity levels, chemical environments, and vibrations and jolts. But as CoGDEM say and we restate if you have an alarm tested to BS EN 50291 use it happily and replace it at the end of its life with a unit tested to BS EN 50291-2; By the pressing the test button also tests the sensors and circuits, not just the battery. Perhaps we can orchestrate a unified YBW beeep?
RichardS
N/A
Alarms tested to BS EN 50291-2; take account of the marine environment such as wider temperature variations, greater humidity levels, chemical environments, and vibrations and jolts. But as CoGDEM say and we restate if you have an alarm tested to BS EN 50291 use it happily and replace it at the end of its life with a unit tested to BS EN 50291-2; By the pressing the test button also tests the sensors and circuits, not just the battery. Perhaps we can orchestrate a unified YBW beeep?
My Argos detector is a Kiddie one coded EN50291-1 : 2010 and has a section entitled:
2. Further information for Caravan and Boat Owners
The following can lead to carbon monoxide being produced;
• Using LPG cooking appliances for space heang
• Leaving LPG appliances on overnight
• Barbecue’s within the boat cabin or near a caravan door (e.g. under an awning)
To be safe, know the possible sources of CO in your home.
........ so it's good news that we are all OK with detectors with that code, which is perhaps all of them?
So Yngmar was right and the panic is over, thank you.
Richard
VicS
Well-Known Member
My Argos detector is a Kiddie one coded EN50291-1 : 2010 and has a section entitled:
2. Further information for Caravan and Boat Owners
The following can lead to carbon monoxide being produced;
• Using LPG cooking appliances for space heang
• Leaving LPG appliances on overnight
• Barbecue’s within the boat cabin or near a caravan door (e.g. under an awning)
To be safe, know the possible sources of CO in your home.
........ so it's good news that we are all OK with detectors with that code, which is perhaps all of them?
So Yngmar was right and the panic is over, thank you.
Richard
No . Only EN 50291-2:2010 ones are suitable for boats and caravans . EN 50291-1:2010 is the spec for home use only
That's the point of my post at #3, which is confirmed above by BSS Office.
RichardS
N/A
VicS
Well-Known Member
I did not see any statement in the manual for the 5CO that it is suitable for use in boats and caravans !
ITYWF the advice for boat a caravan owners is just that , no more. I suspect the same appears in all their CO monitor manuals. Certainly in those I have looked at
A little more info about these specs at http://www.safelincs.co.uk/british-standards-for-co-alarms/
If you look at Kidde's data sheet for the 5CO you will find no mention of boats or caravans. If OTOH you look at the datasheet for the 7CO and 7DCO you will find that is specifically says "BSI certified to EN52091 Part 1 and Part 2 (Caravans and Boats)" (qv)
RichardS
N/A
OK .... we agree to disagree. But in future please make an effort to be civil and stop the childish behaviour and Lounge language.
My opinion is that the section on Caravans and Boats is included in the manual because Kiddie believe that their 5CO monitor, and possibly all their current models, (although I haven't checked all the others as I'm primarily interested in the one I own) is/are fully suitable for general use in caravans and boats.
Each of us must make our own decision about whether or not we agree with Kiddie when making our purchase decision but, for the reasons stated above by Yngmar and others, I am happy to accept Kiddie's opinion in respect of my boat which is dry and vibration-free.
Clearly, this one will go down on the list with OAT/IAT antifreeze, synthetic/mineral oil, soft/distilled water, etc as a subject upon which forumites need to draw on their own experience in deciding which path to take. However, I would urge all posters to refrain from comment if you cannot be civil .... or raise the subject in The Lounge and I'll see you there.
Richard
Mctavish
Well-Known Member
The 3 different detectors labelled as "don't buy" look nearly identical, apart from apparent manufacturer's mark. Many that look identical available on ebay and Amazon now. Some apparently completely identical still for sale.
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Polly's Kettle
Well-Known Member
I see that I didn't explain WHY I think I made a mistake with my purchase. It's that I bought to standard -1, rather than the boat/caravan standard -2. To answer another question on here, I bought the Kidde/lifesaver 5CO.
The reason think I made a mistake? Well, given that you can buy an alarm for the same price that is confirmed as being tested for the purpose, rather than one to a different standard ... why on earth wouldn't one do so?
I don't get how the debate has got heated, or where the debate exists. There is a standard for boats, and a standard that's not for boats. My kids lives might stand on me making the right decision. I rather suspect that the ones I got will do the job just fine ... but am I willing to bet their lives on it? Not me.
I also don't get how someone can convince themselves that there are no vibrations on a boat, whether it's being sailed, has the generator running or the engine running. I don't really ask anyone to share my opinion ... I just don't understand why, if you've chosen to do the sensible thing and get an alarm, you wouldn't want to get the alarm to the right standard, when you can?
Now that I understand the situation, I will be replacing mine with what I perceive to be the "right" ones.
The reason think I made a mistake? Well, given that you can buy an alarm for the same price that is confirmed as being tested for the purpose, rather than one to a different standard ... why on earth wouldn't one do so?
I don't get how the debate has got heated, or where the debate exists. There is a standard for boats, and a standard that's not for boats. My kids lives might stand on me making the right decision. I rather suspect that the ones I got will do the job just fine ... but am I willing to bet their lives on it? Not me.
I also don't get how someone can convince themselves that there are no vibrations on a boat, whether it's being sailed, has the generator running or the engine running. I don't really ask anyone to share my opinion ... I just don't understand why, if you've chosen to do the sensible thing and get an alarm, you wouldn't want to get the alarm to the right standard, when you can?
Now that I understand the situation, I will be replacing mine with what I perceive to be the "right" ones.
VicS
Well-Known Member
ITYWF that the section to which you refer has been replaced in the latest manual for the 5CO ( http://www.kiddesafetyeurope.co.uk/D...G_5CO_2015.pdf ) by a similar section in which there is no reference to boats or caravans. Presumably ths has been done to avoid the confusion so obviously caused by including information for boat and caravan owners in a manual for a piece of equipment which is not BSI certified for use in boats and caravans.
I am afraid your "opinion" is just that your misguided opinion. Anyone buying a CO alarm and seriously concerned about the safety of themselves and their family should stick to the facts!
The facts are that some alarms are BSI certified for use in boats and caravans , some are not. The 5CO is not. Fact, not opinion!
The whole purpose of my post way back at the beginning of the thread was to draw people's attention to the difference between alarms BSI certified for use in boats and caravans and those that are not. Hopefully others will not make the same mistake that you made or that I might have made had I not researched the subject some time ago.
RichardS
N/A
For Christ's sake we've agreed to disagree. Just give it a rest Vic and stop the pathetic slights and veiled insults.
BSSOffice said it all .... "continue to happily use your lower spec CO detector until it needs replacing".
Get a life outside the forum man!
Richard
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Polly's Kettle
Well-Known Member
The BSSOffice recommends that you keep existing CO detectors, but importantly that you test them regularly, presumably in case the vibration or humidity has caused them to fail.
Personally, I think I will swap mine for one that is much less likely to fail than have to test them all each time I get to the boat. I'll start worrying about how often I should test.... daily? Weekly? Each time I cause vibration?? Me an' the young lady can cause a fair bit of ... never mind, you get the point.
Personally, I think I will swap mine for one that is much less likely to fail than have to test them all each time I get to the boat. I'll start worrying about how often I should test.... daily? Weekly? Each time I cause vibration?? Me an' the young lady can cause a fair bit of ... never mind, you get the point.
laika
Well-Known Member
A month isn't a "dead thread" right? I can revive it?
Last weekend I fixed my heating (hurrah!) but was a bit concerned about CO: it's a 25 year old Ardic and was smelling a bit dieselly the first day, so I googled this thread, then ordered a BS50291-2:2010 compliant detector which turned up today (Fireangel CO-9D) Thankfully it's sitting at 0ppm as the newfound experience of warmth floats around me BUT...the instructions have a big "not suitable for boats" ( well, actually a pictures of a house, a caravan, a truck and a sailing boat and the sailing boat has a big X over it). No explanation.
Here's the recommendations I just turned up from the boat safety scheme:
http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/264586/CoGDEM-CO-alarms-List-Feb-2015.pdf
They say BS50291-2 *AND* marked as suitable for boats (there's some recommendations in the link above). I'm not going to chuck this one out and get another one but just a heads up for folks who do want to get a pukka "boat" detector...
Last weekend I fixed my heating (hurrah!) but was a bit concerned about CO: it's a 25 year old Ardic and was smelling a bit dieselly the first day, so I googled this thread, then ordered a BS50291-2:2010 compliant detector which turned up today (Fireangel CO-9D) Thankfully it's sitting at 0ppm as the newfound experience of warmth floats around me BUT...the instructions have a big "not suitable for boats" ( well, actually a pictures of a house, a caravan, a truck and a sailing boat and the sailing boat has a big X over it). No explanation.
Here's the recommendations I just turned up from the boat safety scheme:
http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/264586/CoGDEM-CO-alarms-List-Feb-2015.pdf
They say BS50291-2 *AND* marked as suitable for boats (there's some recommendations in the link above). I'm not going to chuck this one out and get another one but just a heads up for folks who do want to get a pukka "boat" detector...
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VicS
Well-Known Member
Very confusing!
If it complies with EN 50291-2:2010 then it should be suitable for boats !
Incidentally its the same model as I have at home. There is no mention of suitability or otherwise for caravans , RVs or boats in my instruction book. Only EN50291:2001 is mentioned as it pre-dates the publication of part 2 I am sure.. Soon be due for replacement!
The digital display seemed like a good idea at the time but wont bother with it next time round
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BSSOffice
Well-Known Member
Some alarms went to market being tested for the recreational vehicle element of EN 50291-2:2010 without being tested for the boat elements. After they were in the market, the further tests including the boat related elements were completed and were found to meet the suitablity for boats. The technical departments of the manufacturers may be able to confirm details and suitability of models in their range. Or the list from manufacturers organisation, CoGDEM, can be referred to as published on our website.
bitbaltic
Well-Known Member
If you can market things without completely testing them to the standard, that will tend to undermine the standard. Not to mention create confusion, which is what any standard is intended to prevent. Certainly I would feel pretty confused if I bought an alarm marked with the standard whose manuals said it should not be used for things certified by the standard.
PeterWright
Well-Known Member
+1, Mr. Baltic, I'm both astonished and disappointed that such a thing can happen.
Rob@BSSOffice has made several helpful contributions to this thread and managed to avoid the unfortunate confrontational approach. I wonder if he would be good enough to explain how this has come about from the point of view of his organisation, one which I have always held in high esteem.