Can you fail RYA competent crew?

[dgadee]

Crew is great and natural helm but I sent her off on a competent crew course (no point in me teaching her, I found). Half way through and the info is engulfing her - sounds as though the tutor fancies a young lawyer doing day skipper, and attends to her every need. Can I lift my crew's spirit? Is it possible to fail this? I have no sailing qualifications so told her she would be most qualified on board, but no idea about the course myself.

 

[sailorman]

Crew is great and natural helm but I sent her off on a competent crew course (no point in me teaching her, I found). Half way through and the info is engulfing her - sounds as though the tutor fancies a young lawyer doing day skipper, and attends to her every need. Can I lift my crew's spirit? Is it possible to fail this? I have no sailing qualifications so told her she would be most qualified on board, but no idea about the course myself.

Im with you on the quals front, if they cash her cheque she will pass

 

[FlyingGoose]

Crew is great and natural helm but I sent her off on a competent crew course (no point in me teaching her, I found). Half way through and the info is engulfing her - sounds as though the tutor fancies a young lawyer doing day skipper, and attends to her every need. Can I lift my crew's spirit? Is it possible to fail this? I have no sailing qualifications so told her she would be most qualified on board, but no idea about the course myself.

Hey competent crew and day skippers are not tests nor do they fail you they will teach you the basics of seamanship it is then up to you to gain more experience in areas that you feel need more attention .
Although if you jumped overboard and swam for shore who knows

 

[Appledore]

Hey competent crew and day skippers are not tests nor do they fail you they will teach you the basics of seamanship it is then up to you to gain more experience in areas that you feel need more attention .
Although if you jumped overboard and swam for shore who knows

I knew someone who failed Comp Crew. The final straw was in Newtown River when we all individually,
had to row the inflatable around the boat. He couldn't do it, the wind caught the dinghy and someone from another yacht had to rescue him!

 

[Ladybirdgaffcutter]

You can't pass or fail CC or DS, you just have to be there and demonstrate the motions.
But I still 'failed' a DS, years ago..the wind dropped to zero, so we couldn't demonstrate the sailing bits. No DS certs were awarded

 

[[3889]]

But I still 'failed' a DS, years ago..the wind dropped to zero, so we couldn't demonstrate the sailing bits. No DS certs were awarded

For 5 days?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory

 

[Blue Sunray]

For 5 days?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory

 

[Ladybirdgaffcutter]

For 5 days?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory

Good link about the 'false memory' :encouragement:

Unfortunately I still have the consolation prize, a Watch Leader certificate, as proof..

 

[mainsail1]

When you finish the Competent Crew Course you get a Course Completion Certificate. So, if you do the 5 days required you will get a certificate however much of a numpty you are.

 

[lpdsn]

I was told a few years ago by an instructor that he failed all five day skippers on one course. IIRC they couldn't do a CTS and despite his best efforts weren't getting it, so finally he set them an exercise and none passed. Classic case of candidates turning up for the practical with no theory knowledge, so really the school's fault.

Failing Comp Crew is harder. Apparently you can fail it if serious sea-sickness causes you to leave the boat before the end of the course.

As for the OP's crew, the DS candidate is going to get more attention anyway, especially if they're weak on theory, so just grin and bear it. Doesn't mean the CC can't learn a fair bit.

 

[prv]

When you finish the Competent Crew Course you get a Course Completion Certificate. So, if you do the 5 days required you will get a certificate however much of a numpty you are.

You "only" get a course completion certificate for Day Skipper too, and someone can definitely be on board for five days and not come away with one of those. I imagine you'd have to be a really weapons-grade numpty not to justify a Comp Crew, but it is in theory possible. "Completing" the course is more than just being present.

Pete

 

[mainsail1]

Well, in all my years of instructing I never "failed" a Competent Crew who stuck the course and I don't believe any instructor would. The Day Skipper is a different matter.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Unfortunately I still have the consolation prize, a Watch Leader certificate, as proof..

The qualification used to be called "Day Skipper/Watch Leader". I think the idea was that you got DS if you did it on yacht and WL if you did it on a sail training ship.

 

[BobnLesley]

...Failing Comp Crew is harder. Apparently you can fail it if serious sea-sickness causes you to leave the boat before the end of the course...As for the OP's crew, the DS candidate is going to get more attention anyway...Doesn't mean the CC can't learn a fair bit.

We had that too, doing a Dazed Kipper course twenty years ago and one guy doing CC spent the whole weekend in a berth or chucking-up, other than recovering to sink a gallon of beer on Saturday evening; he then complained bitterly when the Instructor advised him that it wouldn't count/be accepted as one of his three 'qualifying' weekends.
On another weekend we were on a boat with two guys who were doing a preparation/refresher weekend ahead of taking the Yachtmaster examination, whilst the Instructor gave those two most of his attention, we probably learnt more on that weekend than any other, including how to judge Skippers: The one we thought 'good' subsequently past his exam, the other whom we 'wouldn't trust to cross the Solent' apparently failed miserably.

 

[prv]

The qualification used to be called "Day Skipper/Watch Leader". I think the idea was that you got DS if you did it on yacht and WL if you did it on a sail training ship.

That's my understanding too, though having done both I can't see how they can be considered the same thing or close equivalents. Apart from the basic set of knots I can barely think of anything that's common between skippering a small yacht and leading a watch in a square rigger

Pete

 

[Ladybirdgaffcutter]

The qualification used to be called "Day Skipper/Watch Leader". I think the idea was that you got DS if you did it on yacht and WL if you did it on a sail training ship.

That's interesting..it was on Eve of St Mawes, a replica Scillies pilot cutter, gaff rigged.

 

[Ladybirdgaffcutter]

That's my understanding too, though having done both I can't see how they can be considered the same thing or close equivalents. Apart from the basic set of knots I can barely think of anything that's common between skippering a small yacht and leading a watch in a square rigger

Pete

Just so! If anyone offered a five-day course to get a Watch Leader cert, actually involving five days sailing a square-rigger, they would be snowed under with applications including mine..
although it is obvious that 5 days wouldn't remotely be enough..

 

[Uricanejack]

I am sure I could if I put my mind to it

 

[Skylark]

Comp Crew is an RYA qualification so I’m sure that they would be happy to provide a definitive answer.

I’d also suggest taking a look at the “Yachtmaster Scheme Syllabus and Logbook, G158”. This shows the sail cruising scheme in detail. Comp Crew has 14 elements. Within each element there are specific objectives. Students need to have an “understanding” of some of the subjects and “can” demonstrate a level of proficiency in others, it’s all very clearly defined within the logbook.

The certificate is issued for course completion so if some of the elements are not completed, for what ever reason, during the course, it will not be issued. Each of the 14 elements needs to be “signed” by the instructor so, if the certificate is withheld, it will be apparent which sections require more work.

If on a course a student thinks that he/she isn’t getting a fair/equal opportunity he/she should discusss this with the instructor. Instructors should have a daily, individual debrief with each student. If this doesn’t resolve the matter the next stage would be to discuss the issue with the Sea School chief instructor or Principal. As an RYA recognised training centre, the school will have a written complaints procedure to follow.

 

[ProMariner]

As an instructor, I have never failed a comp crew candidate, did have one guy who got off half way through a windy week due to chronic seasickness, but he would have still passed if he had stuck it out, as he was still useful between bouts. Have known colleagues fail comp crew candidates on rare occasions, but they were instructors who had a very narrow vision on the 'right way/only way' to sail a boat, and only one way to explain things (often just louder and slower on repetition) they don't usually last very long in the job.

Pass or fail, if your friend feels the course was not useful due to the instructors attitude or private agenda, I would encourage them to go through the schools complaints procedure, as the school would rather know the quality of their instructors/contractors first hand, rather than suffering a loss of reputation without knowing the reason.

Day skipper is a different proposition, as already mentioned, lack of theory knowledge is quite common, and often due to the bookings system in the school failing, but sometimes due to some candidates willingness to wing it. A strong sailor lacking theory knowledge can often squeeze by on the course, or a bright candidate with the theory, but little experience can still be fine. But often, candidates present with neither, this will make it a difficult week. Even so, we don't like the word 'fail', prefer 'referral', ie the instructor can tick off a number of the learning outcomes, and make a plan with the candidate to get the remaining items ticked off.

Once, just once, I would love a boat load of day skipper candidates who on day one could, actually hand, reef, and steer a boat as well as the comp crew who have just left. Might as well ask for the moon on a stick. More usually, you ask a DS candidate on day one to organise taking in one reef, to be met with a blank stare, as if you have asked them the square root of 1. But there always comes a point, usually day 3 or 4 when you realise you have a voice activated boat at your disposal, it is a lovely thing.