Can you be thrown out of a Marina????

[Bav34]

Reading Beckys post here you will see that rb-stretch was hoofed out of a French port into a Northerly 7!!

We have just come back from sailing around South Brittany and were stuck in quite a few places due to the weather. This wasn't as bad as it sounds as a lot of boats were waiting for weather windows to make the next hop and we kept meeting the same people and made some good friends.

However it soon became evident that it is not unusual for ports to either refuse entry to visitors due to an expected racing fleet/regatta arrival OR perhaps worse, tell people that had already arrived they had to leave. The weather conditions seemed to play no part in this decision making!

One boat was ejected from Belle Isle, Crouesty seemed permanently roped off on V2 and V3 pontoons and we met one guy who REFUSED to move unless the Harbour Master signed a statement to the effect that HE accepted responsibility for sending a boat out to sea when the skipper thought it too dangerous! Not sure of the legality of that but the boat was found a berth elsewhere in the marina /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif.

So my question is, what would you do?

Wind Force 7. nearest port say 20/30 miles. Been there 3 or 4 days waiting for a safer forecast. HM says you have to go.

Fight or flight?

ps saw LOADS of dolphins ... buzzed for 15 mins off Guernsey, between The Raz and Isle de Groix and inside Camaret. Really cool!!

DOLPHIN VIDEO CAMARET CLICK HERE

 

[fireball]

well - first question is F7 forward or aft of the beam... and would you get big seas with it. F7 by itself isn't too bad, but if you have to battle against it and there are large(r) seas then there is less inclination...
Also depends on the crew onboard ... some would be quite happy with a F7, others wouldn't even consider it.

If it was an english port and the HM told me I had to go when I thought it unsafe for me to do so then I would argue it through to the bitter end. The HM cannot know the individuals abilities to cope with the conditions and therefore should only request that you leave at the earliest opportunity rather than try and force you out.
In France I don't know what I'd do - I don't speak french and I rather suspect any police presence that would be called upon would "side" with the HM ... so I'd probably find a mechanical fault requiring me to stay in port until fixed... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[rwoofer]

In my example, the harbour master made it a condition of entry that we would leave the next day. We were so exhausted from the rough trip from Rochefort to Ile de Yeu that we were not going to debate, we just wanted to rest.

The next day I was fairly apprehensive about setting off again, not because of the boat, but because we were still very tired. As the race boats started to arrive, it became obvious that we really did need to leave, plus the mooring antics in the strong wind had already resulted in some gelcoat damage, so we set off with the no4 hanked on to the inner forestay and a heavily reefed main.

If I had doubted the boat's ability in a F7 I would have dug my heals in, but a Moody 44 is well up to the job, so could not really complain too much (especially as some of the racing boats coming in were around 25 feet).

 

[Channel Ribs]

I would say marinas and certainly harbours have a duty to provide shelter, certainly in storm conditions.

Ramsgate is far from perfect but they cope well with heavy influxes, rarely if ever turning people away and being up front about the space remaining.

Like most, I would object strongly to being chucked out, even in fair conditions - so long as I had paid up.

 

[flaming]

If they've taken bookings and have a full marina they can't exactly turn away the people that have booked can they!?

I'm sure that if it was really bad most marina opperators would find room somewhere.

 

[Dave99]

i had a feeling that there was a marine law which mean that harbours had to provide a safe refuge - maybe I'm wrong or maybe its only in the UK

 

[Stemar]

With a stong crew on a larger, well-found boat, I'd rather go than stay in - or ever return to - a place that took that attitude.

With Jissel and just SWMBO as crew, I'd rather be thrown in jail than thrown out into that sort of weather, so if I was feeling diplomatic, my engine might unaccountably refuse to start; if not, a polite suggestion that the moron concerned aie se faire voir chez les grecs* might be made.


*Bugger off, but a lot more precise in its meaning.

 

[chrisbailey]

I was in Ramsgate at the beginning of last week when it was quite full and they told me in the Harbour office that they are not allowed to refuse entry they have to find room somewhere.
So good for them

 

[Lakesailor]

Harbours, marinas, are they the same in law?

 

[flaming]

So what happens when the marina is actually full, as could happen with some smaller ones, especially if there's a big event on? Who gets priority, the people already there, or the people on route who have been booked in for months?
If I arrived somewhere that I'd booked (especially if I'd come through a F7 to get there!) and was then told I couldn't stay cos the boat in my berth won't leave I'd be having some serious words with that boat.

Similarly, what happens if you get home to your own berth and find a visitor in it who won't leave cos it's a bit windy (this actually happened to me, there was about 20 knots blowing at the time....)?
We solved that one by mooring on the fuel berth and telling the marina office that they could put us back in our berth when the visitor had left! But what if there's no space......?

 

[StugeronSteve]

I suppose the whole thing tends to be self compensating. Unless the marina is expecting an influx of roughty tufty racers, the incomers are just as likely to have been put off by the weather as those that are reluctant to leave. Anything above a 5 and you see lots of empty space on the Yarmouth pontoons, even though they are booked solid.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

[ QUOTE ]


......... But what if there's no space......?

[/ QUOTE ]
There's always space. Just thinking about my own berth there's easily space for a narrow beamed boat between some of the boats on their own fingers, scope for a trot of boats on the ends of the main pontoons and so on. The 308 berths at Port Edgar could easily be made to accomodate another 5% over capacity IMHO. I would go with the obscure electrical fault ploy myself (which is often not a ploy on Border Maid /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif).

 

[Gunfleet]

I have had French marinas say this to me. I had one try to tip me out so that the tour de France de la voile could come in. I'm afraid my ability to speak French (I lived there for some years)) deserts me entirely in these circumstances... we can all be awkward. I don't think, by the way, that anyone should presume the marine Gendarmes will take the harbourmaster's side. If, for example, your wife was ill and the boat couldn't be sailed... well, that's that. Gendarmes, like British policemen, are risk averse and will not want to stand in front of a magistrate explaining how they contributed to an accident any more than you or I would. I'm afraid we British are overly respectful of authority. A French sailor would say 'it's impossible' and the matter would end there.

Of course, if you could go, you should.

 

[TonyS]

A couple of years ago we were met outside St Peter Port and told that both the inner and outer harbours were full with a rally of 130 boats. We were directed to anchor in the next bay. Havelet I think. The 130 boats duly left the next morning.

I think it also depends on which marina. If it was Ile D'Yeu I would be very upset as there is nowhere nearby. I haven't asked Becky but we stayed at Bougenay which is a lovely marina 5 miles from Les Sables and can be entered under most conditions.

 

[Becky]

I can give an example of how things are in this sailing area.

To be fair, it is a WONDERFUL area to sail; there are by and large ports within a short sail, so conditions can be put up with for a brief time.

But

We have sailed in much stronger winds, and much bigger seas than we experienced this year (I was going to say 'summer'), but the short seas in the bays of Quiberon , Benodet, and further south were particularly nasty. The wave length isn't very long, so the bow drives through the waves, with a lot of green water coming aboard. We had the bow so much under water that we had water coming into the forecabin, because the chain locker was full, and didn't have time to drain before the next load of solid water came aboard. It was mainly the speed we were making through a chop similar to that we get in the Solent, but a bit bigger.

The boat rode the waves fine, and we didn't get wet via the decks, but it took two days to dry out the cushions in the forecabin, and for us this is very unusual.

It was a point of concern; we were not having an easy time of things. On the windy days we got quite wet. We got to the stage that we would rather motor-sail in light winds than bash to windward under sail, but into a short head sea which came aboard almost every wave.
It certainly cleaned up the decks!! And of course we almost ALWAYS had the wind ahead.

An example; we came out of the Villaine river, and at the lock, Richard was given a strong wind warning. Great!!

We sailed out of the estuary into 20+ knots of wind from directly ahead and a short sea that was almost stopping our forward motion. We were going to Pornichet, which meant 36 miles of this. So we changed tacks and went north to la Crouesty, 16 miles, at 30 degrees to the apparent wind. The anchor washed loose on the deck, all 35kg of it. Richard had to go forward before we had a hole in the deck, and I can still see him on the foredeck with just his head above water as we ploughed through yet another wave. I had slowed the boat down by easing the sheets, but as the speed dropped, the bow fell off, and suddenly the sails filled and she drove through a big wave without the time to rise over it.

Such sights stay with one. He wasn't too happy either. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

It has just been one of those years.

 

[LymingtonPugwash]

[ QUOTE ]
I was in Ramsgate at the beginning of last week when it was quite full and they told me in the Harbour office that they are not allowed to refuse entry they have to find room somewhere.
So good for them

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but Ramsgate is in the UK!

This reinforces the prevailing attitude to the French! Just tell them to get stuffed, you're not moving.... that's what the French themselves would do!

 

[[3889]]

Setting aside the moral rights and wrongs of forcing a boat to sea, I think this is a really interesting question and one to which, under UK law at least, a definitive answer would be useful. A potential article in a magazine perhaps?
My own limited experience is that UK ports which will not usually accept yachts are accomodating if there is a real problem.

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
I had slowed the boat down by easing the sheets, but as the speed dropped, the bow fell off, and suddenly the sails filled and she drove through a big wave without the time to rise over it.

Such sights stay with one. He wasn't too happy either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Should've sent him up there with the soap so he could've had a good wash at the same time!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif