PuffTheMagicDragon
Well-Known Member
The yard can seek a Court Order that allows them to sell the item to recoup what is owed to them. If what they are owed is well documented and the owner does not defend fis case, the order will be granted.
can the boat yard legally keep the boat?
- Thread starter benlui
- Start date
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
No. The Steam Boat Museum in Windermere found they had a lot of unused boats on their landings in the field. The boat owners hadn't paid the landing fees for, in some cases, years.
The museum took advice and it seems they had to post a notice on the boat warning that unless it was removed and the fees paid by a certain time (I think it was 3 months) the boat would be sold to recover the debt. It is true that a market value should be sought, but that could include an auction with the reserve set at the oustanding debt plus costs.
I seem to think the RYA have advice on this for boat clubs with the perrenial problem. Here it is RYA, Abandoned boats (Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977)
The museum took advice and it seems they had to post a notice on the boat warning that unless it was removed and the fees paid by a certain time (I think it was 3 months) the boat would be sold to recover the debt. It is true that a market value should be sought, but that could include an auction with the reserve set at the oustanding debt plus costs.
I seem to think the RYA have advice on this for boat clubs with the perrenial problem. Here it is RYA, Abandoned boats (Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977)
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Re Ben Lui.
The yard is quite right. It's people like your mate that put prices up for the rest of us. He obviously has no interest in the boat, and at least this way, he doesn't have the hassle of selling, and will get any balance due.
The yard is quite right. It's people like your mate that put prices up for the rest of us. He obviously has no interest in the boat, and at least this way, he doesn't have the hassle of selling, and will get any balance due.
PeterGibbs
Well-Known Member
Sell at a fair price? Well, here's a true tale to the contrary..
Person known to me went abroad and popped his £35k Mercedes in the garage of a previous abode - a block of flats, left the key with the guard. Smart move! Came back and car was gone - taken by Westminster council for £800 of unpaid parking tickets (they can so easily mount up, eh?)
Instructed solicitors to recover his car - no chance. Car sold at auction for £10k, Westminster had taken over £2k, residue just about £8k from £35k. An expensive trip abroad you might say!
Can this be legal - yes. If notice is served, goods can be seized and balance returned to owner. Does distraining party have to get best value for assets? No way.
Moral - don't ignore notices duly served!
PWG
Person known to me went abroad and popped his £35k Mercedes in the garage of a previous abode - a block of flats, left the key with the guard. Smart move! Came back and car was gone - taken by Westminster council for £800 of unpaid parking tickets (they can so easily mount up, eh?)
Instructed solicitors to recover his car - no chance. Car sold at auction for £10k, Westminster had taken over £2k, residue just about £8k from £35k. An expensive trip abroad you might say!
Can this be legal - yes. If notice is served, goods can be seized and balance returned to owner. Does distraining party have to get best value for assets? No way.
Moral - don't ignore notices duly served!
PWG
benlui
Well-Known Member
Well i don’t think it would be very wise for me to give the details of what/where the boat is...... but if I decide to “not get involved myself” then I will gladly pass on the info on a PM.
On a more serious note, i think i am going to confront the owner and ask him to sell it to me for the 4k, but i have a feeling i know where ill be told to go!
On speaking to the yard today, it appears that there going to sell her alright, and in their opinion, are quiet entitled to. They have gone about it in the "legal" way, and all the letters they have been sending to the owner have been done so through a solicitor. So i guess in this case, they are within their rights. pity really, but shame on the owner for letting it get to this......
Boat yards must love when this happens, but i can be 100% sure, in this case, there is no way that the return of any balance will be passed on to the owner.......
I’ve noticed a large no. of abandoned boats in the yard, i mean people would be crazy paying for storage for some of them as they are in such bad condition. Does this mean that they too are all sold off, and most likely sold off at a substantial profit to the yard..........
On a more serious note, i think i am going to confront the owner and ask him to sell it to me for the 4k, but i have a feeling i know where ill be told to go!
On speaking to the yard today, it appears that there going to sell her alright, and in their opinion, are quiet entitled to. They have gone about it in the "legal" way, and all the letters they have been sending to the owner have been done so through a solicitor. So i guess in this case, they are within their rights. pity really, but shame on the owner for letting it get to this......
Boat yards must love when this happens, but i can be 100% sure, in this case, there is no way that the return of any balance will be passed on to the owner.......
I’ve noticed a large no. of abandoned boats in the yard, i mean people would be crazy paying for storage for some of them as they are in such bad condition. Does this mean that they too are all sold off, and most likely sold off at a substantial profit to the yard..........
Seakindly
Well-Known Member
Yup -had to look into this myself as I bought my boat off a guy who comically pretended to be a yachtie but clearly had bought himself from a yard just to make a deal. I discovered it had lain idle and unpaid for three years. At least it's being sailed now and I got a boat I couldn't otherwise afford. Felt risky at the time, but doing the homework on liens and so -forth was worth it.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Boat yards must love when this happens,
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll bet they don't! All they get is a load of hassle and timewasting for very little return, if any.
Boat yards must love when this happens,
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll bet they don't! All they get is a load of hassle and timewasting for very little return, if any.
tillergirl
Well-Known Member
No they don't love it. It's a load of hassle to get what they are due and if a local yard near here is anything to go by, they don't win out of the process ususally. Most abandoned boats are not worth the debts on them - that's why they get left. This owner is a dork - he should pay what he owes. If he cannot afford to then he should talk to the yard and try and arrange a deal until he sells it.
PeterGibbs
Well-Known Member
quote: I have known some yards and marinas to be very cavalier with unpaid for boats. I've seen them sold for far less than they were worth, without advertising. I've known boats to be liberated of much of any decent equipment and so on. Not sure what would happen if someone took them to court.
________________________________
The process is well know in these cases - it hangs on reasonable behaviour/endeavours and contractual obligations. If a party does not pay for services rendered and ignores all claims for compensation the claimant will be seen to have acted reasonably vs the defendant in obtaining that which is his.
Thers is no duty of care on the claimant's part to spend even more time and effort to recover his loss by putting goods up for sale in a way that delays his recovery. Not reasonable in these circumstances. What would the defendant counter-claim - that the yard was not acting reasonably in selling his goods when himself not paying or coming to terms on his contractual obligations? Not on!
It is always a prudent measure for a claimant to get court approval to protect himself from counterclaims over the sale of the distrainted goods, but the prospects of the success in a counter claims action would be slim with the added fun of paying both parties' costs on losing it !
PWG
________________________________
The process is well know in these cases - it hangs on reasonable behaviour/endeavours and contractual obligations. If a party does not pay for services rendered and ignores all claims for compensation the claimant will be seen to have acted reasonably vs the defendant in obtaining that which is his.
Thers is no duty of care on the claimant's part to spend even more time and effort to recover his loss by putting goods up for sale in a way that delays his recovery. Not reasonable in these circumstances. What would the defendant counter-claim - that the yard was not acting reasonably in selling his goods when himself not paying or coming to terms on his contractual obligations? Not on!
It is always a prudent measure for a claimant to get court approval to protect himself from counterclaims over the sale of the distrainted goods, but the prospects of the success in a counter claims action would be slim with the added fun of paying both parties' costs on losing it !
PWG
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
Who is going to buy a boat 'without title' ? Hence the relatively low asking price.
It would be better if your mate co-operated and asked the yard to act as broker, for an asking price of £6k surely ?
It would be better if your mate co-operated and asked the yard to act as broker, for an asking price of £6k surely ?
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Anonymous
Guest
Read Marsupial's post. It is on the nail. There is nothing specifically 'boaty' about the law in these cases. If your friend is short of money then a CAB should be able to advise.
But, aside from the legal status, obviously things go more easily if the debtor stays in touch with the creditor. I think I'd phone the yard, put my cards on the table, and try to come to some sensible arrangement even if pro tem. The most important thing is to avoid it becoming 'personal' so no insults etc. Everyone knows that life if tough at the moment.
But, aside from the legal status, obviously things go more easily if the debtor stays in touch with the creditor. I think I'd phone the yard, put my cards on the table, and try to come to some sensible arrangement even if pro tem. The most important thing is to avoid it becoming 'personal' so no insults etc. Everyone knows that life if tough at the moment.
minkysailing
Well-Known Member
Can't help posting a short message on this thread....Why for heavens sake doesn't your mate just pay what he owes otherwise he is going to loose his boat and money. He signed a contract with the marina and he is defaulting on that. He needs to be given so freindly advice about life and responsibilities......
absit_omen
Well-Known Member
Erm, perhaps he has not got the money?
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Right, but Benlui's posts don't give the impression that it is shortage of moola. If it is (and I can understand Benlui's reticence in saying so) Then talking to the yard would be the best track. Gain some time and sell for a reasonable price. I am sure the yard would prefere that. If shortage is not the case, what's his problem? If it is worth 12k, then sounds pig headed.
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Marsupial
Well-Known Member
Yes its constructive ownership of the part of the craft they have worked on, but they dont own the craft. In most cases the threats of sale and legal actions are enough to deter the (obviously skint) owner from following up his legal position and boats cars and trucks get siezed and sold to meet the debt. In reality these cases need to be tested in court for proportonality but they seldom are. In other words a supplier cannot sieze a £1m assest for the non payment of a £100 bill, but he can deny its use to the owner till payment is received. At least thats what I understand by LIEN.
