Can still afford to livaboard in Turkey

J

jimp45

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Hi this is question for liveaboards in Turkey.
BTW I hope your yachts are ok after the current storms.

One year ago I could afford a reasonable yacht, reasonably high return on investments
and house rental. Now all that has gone, I am not sorry for myself but I will have to lower
my expectations.

There will be my wife and I, we are planning 2 years fulltime cruising in the Eastern Med. Because of the Euro situation Turkey is an obvious choice as 1 GBP has hovered around 2.3 TL for the past year.

I anticipate paying £50k for a yacht (Prout snowgoose?) plus £10k for any mods., refurb etc. plus sailing to our destination.

I'm guessing this is a reasonable budget for the year:

Marmaris Yat Marina 6 winter mths £1500
Misc Marinas £360
Yacht Insurance £500
Maint + Liftout £2000
Flights home £1400
Fuel £500
Food and Drink £6000
Clothes £500
Medical £200
Misc items £1000

Total £13,960

Is this a reasonable estimate?
What have I forgot?
I am capable of maintaining mechanical and electrical items.
I anticipate flying home in the event of hospitalisation.

Your comments will be most welcome

Jim
 
Jim, I reply cos no oner else has yet (they're probably out sailing)

I think your budget is actually pretty realistic verging on generous. Clearly you aren't going to be set back by a blown headsail or mangled gearbox.
Being a cat, have you given consideration to a good rib dinghy and 15hp outboard? These free up your marina costs somwhat as you can anchor off but nip back to the boat quickly if a squall blows up whist you are eating ashore...
For what it is worth I have lived -well- on much much less whilst away sailig (boatless right now) and like you am pretty much fully capable of repairing most everything on the boat and like to have enough cash/card reserves to buy my way out of trouble eg quick haul out and store and return to UK for unspecified emrgency..
Enjoy, its fun out there.
I love the maxim ' men and boats rot in harbour(marinas)'
 
Good evening:

I am sure you will have a pretty good standard of life with the funds you mention however I would question your choice of marina. Your expenses may differ from the categories you have used but the total seems pretty good.

Is there any special reason you have chosen this marina?

My reason for asking is that it would not be my choice if for no other reason then I consider it a boatyard, not a marina in that there is no breakwater and it is open to northly winds blowing down across the bay.

A couple of other points is the isolation (8 kms from town). I visited there yesterday and it was a sad desolate place although admittedly there was a litter/debris because of the storm of a couple of days ago. This added to the grey overcast sky made it an unappealing place in total.

Admittedly it is less expensive than others but remember that you have to factor in the cost of transportation, water and electricity - meaning turning on the heater involves a decision concerning the cost.

I am sure you will enjoy yourselves.

Cheers

Squeaky
 
Blueboatman. Thanks for your reply.

Squeaky. Thanks for your reply.
The reasons I was thinking of Marmaris YM is that a lot of liveaboards
live there, so it must be for a good reason. I would expect to overwinter
there and the number of yachty's who are there should make for a good
social scene. Plus the collective knowledge of this group should prove
invaluable for choosing summer cruising grounds etc.

However this is not set in stone, I have noted your comments.
Perhaps forumites could add there thoughts on overwintering
in Turkey.

BTW I have a half share in a Benny 393 based in Yalikavak. Nice
as this marina is, it would be a very lonley place in winter.

Jim
 
Jim, I think your budget is very reasonable. Just some minor comments: 'maintenance' is one unknown item; it depends on the state/age of your boat and your own standards. Secondly, your 'marina cost' is also a matter of choice. If you live aboard; you don't 'have to' stay in a marina 6 months in the winter. There are very secure anchoring bays in Turkey that does not cost anything. You could even anchor just outside Marmaris Yacht Marina (not safe in a south storm though) and benefit from their social network without paying anything. They also charge by the month, so you could also choose to only use them during the cold wet months of December/January.

Which brings me to the choice of marina; 'Squeaky' has a very well pronounced preference for Netsel Marina. This is a perfectly understandably position; it is one of the best marinas' in the world. It is beautiful, great service and a nice in-town location. You will not be disappointed if you select Netsel. My preference is still Yacht Marine. This is because I think the mix of community/service/price/comfort is unbeatable. It beats Netsel, but only because the competition between the two have lifted both to be the best in the world. That is my very personal opinion, but I have not seen anything better.
 
I agree with pretty much everything that has been said above, but I'm still gonna stick my two pence worth in, if for no other reason than the fact I can't sleep. Liz has returned safely (hoorah) but she's tucked up in bed (boo).

1. I think your budget is pretty realistic, though we try to keep to an monthly limit like ForeverFreedom
2. As LJ says, 'maintenance' is unknown. Expect the unexpected. Have emergency funds tucked up your sleeve
3. Marmaris Yacht Marina is popular for a reason. Let me break that down for you:
- it's popular because it is cheap(er)
- it has a thriving community because, as Squeaky says, it is 8km out so people have to entertain themselves. Marmaris town is fantastic for boat parts, but let's face it folks, it's a dump. The Blackpool of Turkey.
- that dolmus (bus) ride into town and back might be great for a bit, but it gets to get a ****ing pain the ass after a while. If you can afford it, go in on a car-share scheme with other yotties.
- if you spend 6 months there, straight, you might go mad through cabin fever
- flip-side is it is a great place to meet other people and that is the one main reason for going there (apart from cost)
- Netsel is getting more popular, however. 70 liveaboards this year, up from 30 last year. It's a five minute walk into town and you are not forced to have a beer in the same bar.

Finally, may I just pick up on your point about Yalikavak being lonely in the winter? If you want to go to a marina for your winter social life, hanging out with other yotties then yes, you are right, Yalikavak will be quiet. But don't forget Yalikavak is a biggish town with lots of locals. You could always socialise with them (actually Yalikavak does have a lot of ex-pats too).

So there is a muddled, non-sensical opinion to confuse you even further. To sum up I think I would probably recommend what Liz and I did: spend your first winter in MYM and take advantage of their great price and services. Use it as a place to meet some fantastic people and as a base to start discovering other places in the region. Then move on.
 
I agree with demonboy (Hi, Jamie!). Marmaris Yacht Marina is not perfect, but it's good value (we are in our 2nd winter there). A number of people have moved to Netsel for some of the reasons mentioned, and also because of some eccentric Management decisions, and if I were staying round here for a third winter and was prepared to spend a bit more, I'd go there too. Regarding the alleged exposure to storms, we have not seen any serous problems here in spite of some pretty severe weather (except the damage caused to one yacht on the hard last week when a large steel-framed polythene tent blew down in 60+ knot winds, the worst this place has seen in 14 years or more).

Your budget looks pretty generous, except possibly boat insurance. Be warned that most yacht-related goods and services here are priced in Euros, so they don't lose if the Euro goes up against the Turkish lira (for goods imported from Europe), but of course we lose if it goes up against the pound.

The one thing I'd add is medical insurance, as the EU cover doesn't extend to Turkey. Pantaenius do one that just covers emergency and repatriation, which we have used. Finally, if you need serious dental treatment, wait till you get here - it's cheap and good. Come to that, private medical treatment is also cheap(I had a knee op for about half what a friend paid for the same in the UK).
 
Given you have not revealed the size of your boat it is difficult to confirm some of your figures, however rates at Marmaris Yacht Marine have increased by an additional 15% from 2008 you may need to factor that in.
The one item that stands out in your budget is Diesel. Unless you have a very small fuel efficient engine or generator and plan to run it very little I think your annual 500pounds is very low. Diesel in Turkey is expensive, Greece is more reasonable. On average a cruising boat can put 300-500 hours on a engine in a twelve month period.
To add a comment regarding MYM and the weather situation that occurred this past Jan 23/24, there were in fact 5 yachts damaged by the collapse of the Massive Grey canvas shelter. This shelter completely covered a Gulet including its mast so you can imagine the size of it. There were also 2 boats on Hotel pontoon, in the water, damaged in the storm. MYM is denying any responsibility and basically leaving it to the various yacht owners and their insurance companies.
The live-aboard community at MYM is rapidly dwindling due to a variety of factors. Our experience with Marmaris Yacht Marine is anything but good and at the expiration of our contract we will not return.
If you plan on living aboard all winter it is very reasonable to remain at anchor in many great places on Turkey's coast. Invest in excellent ground tackle! Big anchors and all chain rode. Good luck to you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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