Can it be negotiated?

So there you are about to upgrade your boat and exactly what you want appears after a blimming long search and the seller has unaccountably accepted your rather cheeky offer.
However, somebody who made a firm offer on your boat, the amount offered which upset you, has now come back with something half sensible.
Are you seriously going to watch the boat of your dreams "sale" off into the sunset on a princple, surely its the price to change that wins ?
 
Poignard said:
Extraordinary attitude. How on earth can a low offer be an insult?
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Surprising how many people think it is insulting. To me it is a business transaction - when selling our boat I wasn’t happy with initial offers but didn’t feel insulted - a little frustrated yes but not insulted and we simply declined the offer. Over time the Broker kept talking with the potential buyer and eventually a level we could all live with was reached.

When buying I have experienced the ‘insulted’ reaction and have always been a little bemused by it if I am honest, particularly as we have always demonstrated that we are serious buyers with available funds and explained the basis for our offers.
 
Greg2 said:
When buying I have experienced the ‘insulted’ reaction and have always been a little bemused by it if I am honest.
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Me too. Any serious offer, however low, should be treated with respect because its always a starting point. OK if you can't get the prospective buyer up to an amount that you can live with, thats fine, its just business. If I told every customer in my business who came in with a lowball offer to shove his offer where the sun dont shine and never darken my door ever again, I wouldnt be in business. Its a game and if you want to sell you have to play the game
 
Just to say, I wasn't insulted by the low offer(s) and agree you have to start somewhere, what annoyed me was after two low offers we told him we wouldn't sell for anything less than £30k and he kept coming back with £23k, £23.5k etc so I felt he was wasting mine and the broker's time, or to be less polite, taking the p155
 
In reply to the several answers above.

Firstly I have never needed the money from the sale of a current boat to buy my next boat. I have always had the cash available. If I cant afford it I don't try to buy it. That has been my way up until now and I am 55 years old. It has worked for me.

Secondly once I buy anything I consider the money spent gone. It is not an 'investment' I bought it because I wanted it. If I needed the money for something else I would not have bought it.

The reason I hardly ever sell anything is because I hardly never put anything up for sale. If I do put something for sale I price it at a fair price (I see many other people doing the same) and I have generally sold it at or very close to that price.

I have bought a huge amount of second hand stuff in my life and still have most of it. I have actually paid a person more than the asking price on one occasion as the person was in a poor situation personally and he was in my view asking too little.

So I say again life is not all about money to me Honour plays a far more important role
 
I have read here and on other posts the comment..... Find out the situation of the seller to judge the offer you make. To me this demonstrates one of the worst aspects of society. What you are saying is exploit the sellers weakness. This is dishonourable and not my way and the world would be a far better place if it were not the way of others. Look at the news currently about one individual who was a super yacht owner and you might just see what I mean.

Yes the attitude mentioned above might get you a cheap boat but when I lay in my bed at night I like to feel that I have not ripped anyone off and have been fair.

I bought an RC Jet from a guy once who had fallen on hard times and his wife was very ill,he was having to sell his stuff to keep his family's head above water so he was desperate for the money. Should I have used this to drive down the price........ Well some would...... My view was he was asking too little so I paid him more than he was asking which was what I considered a fair price. It was not a lot more but it was more. I walked away with my jet feeling far better than if I had boned down his price.......... As I say it is not all about getting things as cheaply as possible
 
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Greg2 said:
Surprising how many people think it is insulting. To me it is a business transaction - when selling our boat I wasn’t happy with initial offers but didn’t feel insulted - a little frustrated yes but not insulted and we simply declined the offer. Over time the Broker kept talking with the potential buyer and eventually a level we could all live with was reached.

When buying I have experienced the ‘insulted’ reaction and have always been a little bemused by it if I am honest, particularly as we have always demonstrated that we are serious buyers with available funds and explained the basis for our offers.
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You say it is a Business transaction. My boats are not part of my business. They are my leisure time it has nowt to do with business.
 
Deleted User said:
Me too. Any serious offer, however low, should be treated with respect because its always a starting point. OK if you can't get the prospective buyer up to an amount that you can live with, thats fine, its just business. If I told every customer in my business who came in with a lowball offer to shove his offer where the sun dont shine and never darken my door ever again, I wouldnt be in business. Its a game and if you want to sell you have to play the game
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Mike

There it is again the word business. Why do you think buying a boat which I assume you use for your leisure is business.
 
Bigplumbs said:
I have read here and on other posts the comment..... Find out the situation of the seller to judge the offer you make. To me this demonstrates one of the worst aspects of society. What you are saying is exploit the sellers weakness. This is dishonourable and not my way and the world would be a far better place if it were not the way of others. Look at the news currently about one individual who was a super yacht owner and you might just see what I mean.

Yes the attitude mentioned above might get you a cheap boat but when I lay in my bed at night I like to feel that I have not ripped anyone off and have been fair.

I bought an RC Jet from a guy once who had fallen on hard times and his wife was very ill,he was having to sell his stuff to keep his family's head above water so he was desperate for the money. Should I have used this to drive down the price........ Well some would...... My view was he was asking too little so I paid him more than he was asking which was what I considered a fair price. It was not a lot more but it was more. I walked away with my jet feeling far better than if I had boned down his price.......... As I say it is not all about getting things as cheaply as possible
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Just to chip in, i agree with your sentiments that there's more to life than optimizing money transactions in your favour. When I sell something I love (like a boat), I want it to go to a good owner who'll take care of it and have fun and pass it on. If someone comes in being too "cheeky" I might wonder if they are the right person to own it at all (will they scrimp on it and lead to its ultimate demise?).

I'm a bit of a utilitarian at heart, and fortunate enough that a few % up or down on cash value of most things will not affect my utility by anything meaningful so seek to maximize utility in other ways, such as getting the buyer my things deserve.
 
sorabain said:
Just to chip in, i agree with your sentiments that there's more to life than optimizing money transactions in your favour. When I sell something I love (like a boat), I want it to go to a good owner who'll take care of it and have fun and pass it on. If someone comes in being too "cheeky" I might wonder if they are the right person to own it at all (will they scrimp on it and lead to its ultimate demise?).

I'm a bit of a utilitarian at heart, and fortunate enough that a few % up or down on cash value of most things will not affect my utility by anything meaningful so seek to maximize utility in other ways, such as getting the buyer my things deserve.
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I am glad to see someone who holds similar values to me...... The word you use above 'Cheeky' seems to have crept into this field of society as some sort of way to offer way less that something's worth often to exploit a weakness with the seller. For me the word cheeky used in this context simply means rude at best and insulting at worst.

The OP in this thread asked a simple question to what there is seemingly not a simple answer and I agree there is not........... But actually the answer if you have done some research is most likely 10 %
 
10 % ish is about right .

There’s a lot of variables.
If it’s a common mainstream and been maintained well then you can see the price advertised online .
When I sold my Sunseeker which fits the sentences above the Sunseeker broker said more or less what you say up to 10% ,he was talking 5-8 % to cover the buyers survey , lift out ,and other expenses. Plus a little give from me after the survey to make the buyer feel he’s got the whip hand .

It’s all a game a mind game you are playing the man .

So I had a figure I was happy with and the broker just 10 % ed that .
It went for from memory 6-8 % less so mentally I thought I was quids in .

What we haven’t mentioned here is the dynamics ,
How motivated is the seller / buyer ?

I was in no rush to sell it ,mentally thinking of renting the berth out until a replacement found .I put it on in Sept after the seasons use and it was gone in 3 weeks - eek .

Which brings me back to motivation let’s look at the seller .
You never really know ,or find out later the situation of the seller .
Sometimes there are clues ,bereavement , public bank sales etc ,personal illness ,divorce , placed an order for a new one and no p-ex deal + many others reasons .
These are motivated not because of the issues / predicament they are in alone , but also some part due to 3 rd party advice filtering in from lawyers, brokers , family members etc etc .
Unlikely to be unresponsive by low offers , act like professionals engage with the buyers in a business like manor polite entering into dialogue .


Second group the just plane “ moving up “ ready for a change , testing the mkt .
Theses are not so motivated and ask the top end , take a longer view so are not receptive to low ball offers .Often fit a certain “type “ sort of OCD ish , it’s there baby , over immaculate presentation .Sound daft in over describing it majoring on the unique upgrades it’s got .Over obsessed with it ,because the seller has no other meaningful life away from the boat .
You are on a high way to nothing low balling these folks .
Best left in there own little world .You can try a low ball be my guest but don’t be surprised if you end up on the receiving end of its “insulting “
But I guess it’s too late to realise that once you are on the boat doing a viewing ?? You are kinda knackered.So politeness kicks in and find an excuse to not proceed any further .
Sure it’s a nice boat that’s a given but you have to fast fwd to when it’s time for you to off load .Also compare what’s on offer with a std version and cost out the upgrades for you to retro fit new .Not all but only the ones you like .
Do you really want to pay extra for eg infra red night vision or troublesome Williams tender , that’s been detailed at great expense by the seller to coordinate with the mother ship ?

Having said that it only takes one buyer .

People’s circumstances change with time and the motivational levers change sometimes as a buyer you can catch the right moment and get a steal .Sometimes as a seller you get lucky .
Think of two wheels turning it’s just a matter of timing when they align .
 
How can you say 10% ? Many boats are realistically priced. Many many are not so the asking price is one thing but your offer is based on its value to you / your perception of market. If properly price maybe 10% but if it is a well priced axopar in Mallorca in may then just pay the man or it will be gone.

So it depends.
 
jrudge said:
How can you say 10% ? Many boats are realistically priced. Many many are not so the asking price is one thing but your offer is based on its value to you / your perception of market. If properly price maybe 10% but if it is a well priced axopar in Mallorca in may then just pay the man or it will be gone.

So it depends.
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Yup it depends but that aint an answer to he OP's Question. I still think 10 % is a good guide as I said after you have done research regarding other similar boat prices
 
Bigplumbs said:
You say it is a Business transaction. My boats are not part of my business. They are my leisure time it has nowt to do with business.
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Well, I guess what I mean is that I try to treat buying and selling as an objective transaction ruled by my head and not my heart because that is more likely to lead to better decisions. Sure, I love my boats and usually invest time, effort and money in ensuring that they are as good as they can be for the make/model and age. As such I would prefer them to go to a ‘good home’ but my head tells me that is probably sentimental tosh for what is actually an inanimate object, but then we do get strangely attached to them :)

FWIW I consider myself to be highly principled and and don’t like many aspects of human exploitative behaviour so I wouldn’t try to rip anyone off. But by the same account, money is hard earned and not limitless for us and understanding the motivation of a seller, as described by Portofino, is important. If we make an offer it is carefully considered and it is just that, an offer which the seller is perfectly at liberty to decline. The motivation of the seller is a consideration but not to the extent to seeking to, for example, exploit someone’s bad luck such as a bereavement or ill-health.
 
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If you buy it right, you can sell it right. ie quickly and without haemorrhaging cash that could go towards your new boat.
Pay what the seller believes the boat is worth and its market value will probably be revealed only when you attempt to sell.
Unlike any other market out there ,there is nothing other than asking prices of similar boats to go on.Many of which reflect a long vanished market
The true value of any boat is only what some optimist is daft enough to pay for a fast depreciating money pit which costs a fortune to run while quietly falling to bits for 99% of its life.
Buy in haste repent at leisure. :)
 
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oldgit said:
The true value of any boat is only what somebody is daft enough to pay for a fast depreciating money pit which costs a fortune to run while quietly falling to bits for 99% of its life.
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Wise words. Why on earth do we do it? If we had spent our money on classic cars or fine art or property we'd be laughing all the way to the bank now. Is there a worse investment than boats?
 
oldgit said:
.........am pretty certain most of us have a wife and kids :):):)
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Mmm, I tend to think that we blokes get railroaded into that particular situation against our better instincts but buying a boat, finding out it costs you a fortune and then doing it again and again must be a particular kind of insanity for which there is no rational explanation;)
 
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