Can it be negotiated?

[Sneaky Pete]

I am looking to buy a used motor cruiser no rush taking my time to buy the one that suits my needs. Of the boats that are for sale what is the percentage difference between the price advertised and the selling price. Clearly manufacturer, condition and a few other factors will contribute to this. I am interested in cruiser boats between 32 & 36 feet.
Reason for asking is that sailing yachts tend to drop around the 10% mark from advertised price.

 

[maverickofpoole]

That's a sneaky question Pete

There is no full answer as all will depend on how badly the sellers wants to shift his pride and joy and how keen the purchaser is on buying the boat of his dreams.

If you find a boat you like, put your value on it, make a bid and see what happens

 

[TQA]

You are looking at a " how long is a piece of string' situation.

I paid less than 50% of the original asking price for my current boat. The couple I bought it from were trying to recoup what they had spent on the extensive refit.

I have bought and sold stuff all my life mostly cars. I always look at what it is worth and not the asking price.

Sure if you are considering a 3 to 7 ear old BenBavJeb the a look at SOLDBOATS will establish the going rate for one.

But if you are looking at 40 year old boat from a little known manufacturer with a very small production run then you need to do your homework and start with your own survey to identify what work needs to be done and HOW MUCH IT WILL COST TO GET THE YARD TO DO THE WORK.

In my case it was a New Bombay Trading Company Explorer 44 centerboard version. Nothing needed doing except a few hose clamps. There was one major area of concern. There were extensive stress cracks all over the deck with patterns in the moulded non slip. The surveyor was of the opinion that the fault stemmed from the original gelcoat layup it was cosmetic only and not to worry about it if I went ahead,

40 year old boats are difficult to value, some have negative equity. eg 40 year old wooden powerboats with twin V 8 petrol engines.

 

[Assassin]

As above!

Anything is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

 

[Poignard]

Don't be shy of making an offer. You'd kick yourself if you paid more for something than you need have.

 

[oldgit]

The MoBo market can frequently be regarded as a very conservative market indeed but going to assume that your budget is not unlimited and your not looking to buy a "look at me" pocket rocket.
Wide range of mid sized boats produced over the the years for sale at any one time, however, the ones which tend to hold their price better , come from a very few known builders, Princess,Fairline and Broom.
People have heard of them.
A boat from a less well known builder may well have lower asking price, not because its a lesser well built boat, but because nobody has heard of it.
There are however a few marques out there which are difficult to sell on for one good reason or another and the asking price frequently reflects this.

It really depends how lucky you are or how long you been searching.. A real peach could come along 10 mins before you walk into the broker, a real minter and an owner who wants out. Anybody who has been searching for ages/lucky and recognises the bargain in front of him, will ensure its off the market moments later.
All that leaves is the overpriced and the dogs.Eventually the overpriced do respond to the market conditions, eventually.
One boat we were considering, recently sold after three years on the market at around 60% of the original asking price,which had already been reduced.
It was by all accounts a very nice clean boat.
.
Marinas/boatyards/ boat clubs are full of underused boats lying idle which their owners would frankly be glad to see the back of, if half decent offer came along.
You are a cash buyer and at the moment hold all the cards.

 

[Greg2]

It is worth bearing in mind that it has been a sellers market for some time and many brokerages have had a shortage of stock, hence sold boats are tending to stay on websites and there has been much talk about prices hardening during the last year or so. So a low offer may work on a particular boat but don't expect a bargain price on a respected marque in reasonable condition.

 

[TQA]

It is worth bearing in mind that it has been a sellers market for some time and many brokerages have had a shortage of stock, hence sold boats are tending to stay on websites and there has been much talk about prices hardening during the last year or so. So a low offer may work on a particular boat but don't expect a bargain price on a respected marque in reasonable condition.

Sounds like brokerspeak to me.

 

[ari]

Sounds like brokerspeak to me.

Then go and look at the listings of a few popular brokers and see for yourself.

I was looking for a boat recently, and even allowing for the dearth of listings, I was still finding that I would call about a boat only to find that it got sold weeks or months ago, but the broker 'hadn't got around to delisting it yet'.

There is plenty of rubbish still for sale, but the good stuff it very hard to find.

As to how much you get off, well the overpriced, tatty or unpopular stuff will yield the best discounts, if that's what's wanted...

 

[jrudge]

I can confirm this was the case when i was looking 18 months ago.

There were something like 30 odd listings of Squadron 58. 30% were duplicates with multiple brokers and 50% of the remainder were sold. Some that were sold then ( 18 months ago) are still listed now. So there were about 10 boats really for sale. Remove the ones in odd locations or that carry daft prices and there was not much left. Remove high hours charter boats and the list gets smaller still.

What the sites show vs what is actually available is quite different.

That does not in itself support prices, however I have had Ancaster on the phone twice trying to resist the boat for sale and I know that boats.co.uk want more brokerages as they cant get enough of it. I dont know if you know the Barke brothers. They are a combination of charm and bluntness and dont really have time to ask people if they know of brokerage boats unless their need is real!

If you wasn't to see what something is really worth I reckon boats. co.uk stock boats is pretty close to reality as they have them to sell not look at. Of course they will take a bid, but they are usually priced close to what they will sell and a discount could be in the form of cash or PX / cost to change.

I only mention boats as I happen to know them and my boat is moored about 40 feet from their Cala Dor yard so you see the stock change each time you visit.

The price of new boats will also drive behaviour. I have a 2004 S58. Is it new? Of course not but I have just spent money making it as close to new as it can get for the age. A new 58 ft boat is going to be close on £2m inc the VAT - which is hugely more than I paid for a new Squadron 65 in the heady days of discounts 3 years ago. The price of new makes the price of second hand more attractive.

At SIBS I was with Whiteligher and we walked past a 26 ish foot ( could have been more or less) USA open sports boats for something like £130k so the price differential exists at all levels of the market.

Do bargains exist? Always. I sold my 2004 Targa 40 to Boats.co.uk for £95k 4 years ago, I would have taken it from anyone - I already had a new boat. A forumite on here I spoke to the other day bought a boat similar to mine for a very very good price. There was no negotiation going on and then the owner called and said make it £x today and done. Why? Who knows. New boat, needed to pay the wages, health - a dozen possible reasons.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Don't be shy of making an offer. You'd kick yourself if you paid more for something than you need have.

Agreed. If you make an offer you will only go one way from there and that is up so start low but it is essential you do homework before making an offer. First make sure that any broker you are dealing through knows that you are a serious buyer. If you have cash waiting tell him. If you have already sold your previous boat tell him. If you have bought a number of boats in the past tell him. It all goes to qualify you as a serious buyer. Second, establish the circumstances of the seller, in other words how desperate is he to sell. Has he got another boat on order? Is he getting out of boating altogether? Is the boat located in a place where it is difficult to sell? Third, go see the boat in question and spend your time checking it over. This is not only to establish its condition but also to fix in the seller and broker's mind that you are interested. Do not bother putting in an offer without having seen the boat. There are plenty of buyers who put in multiple low offers on different boats in the hope of getting a bite. Any broker will know these are not serious offers and they will be very likely be dismissed. Fourth establish its financial status. Is it definitely VAT paid? Is it subject to leasing (Med boats only)? Is it lying neglected in a yard and there might be outstanding bills?

Where to start? Providing you are looking at a mainstream production boat and it is in good condition for its age and it is fairly priced to the market and there are no question marks over its financial status, then you might start at asking price -30%. Likely this will be rejected. Then its your decision. If its just one of a number of boats that you might be interested in, then think about moving on. Do you like the boat so much you want to go higher? If so then move in small increments, maybe 2.5% at a time. Do not succumb to the temptation to meet in the middle between what the broker says the buyer wants and where you are unless there is only a few % between those points. Every time you up your offer you have to make it seem like you are going to walk away if it isnt accepted

If there are any question marks over the boat such as not being a mainstream production boat, neglected condition, asking price over the odds or potentially dodgy financial status then start much lower even as low as -50%

 

[Greg2]

Sounds like brokerspeak to me.

More like having been in the market for a boat for a couple of years during which we looked extensively and travelled to view several so describing what we experienced.

When one that had been on our list popped up we knew enough to move quickly as it would sell - in good condition and only just on the market so we paid accordingly.

 

[Sneds]

Our last sale was two years ago, we were looking for low £30k's

One guy kept offering, £22 then £22.5 then £23, get the idea

We told the broker that if he came back again and offered less than the £30k we wanted, to ignore him

The boat sold sold to someone else for £30k a few days later and the original "buyer" came back and said he would have gone to £30k, why didn't the broker call him when this other offer came in?

What I am trying to say is don't wind up a seller by messing about, you may end up disappointed

 

[tom2018]

....First make sure that any broker you are dealing through knows that you are a serious buyer. If you have cash waiting tell him. If you have already sold your previous boat tell him. If you have bought a number of boats in the past tell him. It all goes to qualify you as a serious buyer.

.... Second, establish the circumstances of the seller, in other words how desperate is he to sell. Has he got another boat on order? Is he getting out of boating altogether? Is the boat located in a place where it is difficult to sell?

..... Third, go see the boat in question and spend your time checking it over. This is not only to establish its condition but also to fix in the seller and broker's mind that you are interested.

...... Do not bother putting in an offer without having seen the boat.

+100

Super advice and so accurately reflects our experiences over this summer. Even as a cash buyer we found it hard to be taken seriously by many brokers, getting them to even answer the phone or reply to an email was enough of a challenge. The myriad of different brokers all selling the same actual boat also takes time to sift through, and plenty of "oh we sold that last month, are you interested in [insert something completely different]".

And until you're on the jetty standing in front of both the actual boat and the actual broker/agent/owner, don't let a single cent/penny/groat leave your hands. The number of brokers doing the whole "we have lots of interest in this one, a xx,000 deposit can secure it until you view", or "oh we have many clients who are happy to wire over xx,000 euros sight unseen". Well I'm happy for your other clients, this is not my way of working!

Good luck with your negotiations regardless!

 

[[2068]]

Maybe I am doing it wrong, but I have never managed to get more than 10% off an asking price, but that could be because the boats in question were all fairly mainstream, and generally "in demand" on the second hand market.

There might be more flexibility with more obscure brands or oddball boats.

 

[ari]

Maybe I am doing it wrong, but I have never managed to get more than 10% off an asking price, but that could be because the boats in question were all fairly mainstream, and generally "in demand" on the second hand market.

There might be more flexibility with more obscure brands or oddball boats.

Precisely that. There seems to be no need to 'give away' a decent popular well priced boat, especially in the current climate.

I once managed to negotiate something like 30% off a tatty (but otherwise nice) boat but it was asking 'tidy' money. It cost me more than the 30% saved to bring it back to tidy...

 

[Bbroomlea]

Our S28 we bought 5 years ago was bought for £10K below advertised price.

Just finalised a deal on a S34 - including survey items I barely managed to negotiate 4 numbers from asking price. That alone just about pays for the new steering rams it needs.

Walk away......another survey, another lift out, more time and effort. And there are only 4 S34's for sale in the UK that are not under offer on the main brokerage sites. Definitely a sellers market at the moment.

We were happy with our P/X price on the S28 and a bit frustrated on the S34 but its still well within what its worth so will live with the deal.

In summary though there is a shortage of good boats in the 30-36ft range and as such dont expect much of a deal if looking at popular manufacturers

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Maybe I am doing it wrong, but I have never managed to get more than 10% off an asking price, but that could be because the boats in question were all fairly mainstream, and generally "in demand" on the second hand market.
.

To be fair I think the market has hardened considerably in the last few years. Following the financial crisis, new boat sales dropped like a stone which has caused a dearth of good secondhand boats on the market now. Couple that with recovering UK and European economies and yes if youre selling a good example of a popular mainstream boat now you'll probably get much closer to your asking price than you would have done 5yrs ago

From a buyers point of view though its still always worth starting low and moving up in small increments. I suppose the trick is not to fall in love with one particular boat that you have to have at any cost which of course is what many of us do

 

[Bigplumbs]

Our last sale was two years ago, we were looking for low £30k's

One guy kept offering, £22 then £22.5 then £23, get the idea

We told the broker that if he came back again and offered less than the £30k we wanted, to ignore him

The boat sold sold to someone else for £30k a few days later and the original "buyer" came back and said he would have gone to £30k, why didn't the broker call him when this other offer came in?

What I am trying to say is don't wind up a seller by messing about, you may end up disappointed

I quite agree. I very rarely sell anything but I buy a lot. When I do sell if a buyer offers a very low price which I feel is insulting I simply ignore any other offer from that buyer and will not sell to him even if he offers the asking price. It is not always about the money. Also when I buy if I feel the item is worth the asking price I offer the asking price. Again I say it is not always about the money as with many other things in life

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

. When I do sell if a buyer offers a very low price which I feel is insulting I simply ignore any other offer from that buyer and will not sell to him even if he offers the asking price.

Blimey talk about cutting off you nose to spite your face