Can I use true vegetable fuel and not pay Tax.

J

Jcorstorphine

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If I were to trawl round all the local Chippys and Chinese carry outs etc and gather up sufficient vegetable oil and then convert it to a fuel, why cant I use it in my boat, after all the change in the Tax rules does specifically refer to RED DIESEL, not a vegetable oil fuel which is clear (ish)

Any thoughts
 
try it and see....
should work ok, but add a few drops of white spirit (and mix well) to 25 ltr of old and WELL strained cooking oil.
unfortunately, there is still a TAX to be paid; aprox 38p per litre and your boat will smell like the local chippy. but, who will know?
 
I have used it and my mate uses it all the time so long as you mix either some fresh diesel or white spirit with the vegi after straining it of course it works fine but you may notice a slight loss of power unless you have a engine thats 200 horse or more in which case you wont but you will smell like a mobile chip van but its not nasty in fact it may make you feel hungry !!!
 
Why should the boat smell like a chippy, unless the process of conversion to biodiesel is done on board?
As for excise becoming due, why should it be if the poster isn't proposing to sell it?
Seems to me like the poster has asked a legitimate question and received a bunch of semi-informed prejudice in return. I doubt that what he proposes is straightforward, but it's not beyond the bounds of sense. After all, and preposterous though it might seem, some people actually sail and even live on boats made from re-cycled trees.
 
Google for "bio diesel" and you will find a number of authoritive sites on the subject. It is NOT simply a case of filtering it and / or adding "a drop or two" of white spirit or fresh diesel. There is a conversion process to put the veggie oil through. It is not rocket science to do though and individuals are allowed to manufacture 2500 litres / year without any duty.

Tom
 
I have used Bio diesel in my fishing vessel and if I had a supply handy I still would. Tax has been added to "bought" bio in Australia now which makes it slightly dearer than mineral based diesel. How clever is that.

Bio has many advantages over mineral based diesel. It burns cleaner, has more lubricity so is better for moving parts like the fuel pump etc. Seems to be more economic as well. It also has a cleansing effect on your fuel tank which can mean a couple of extra filter changes till your system is clean.
Down side is the fish and chip smell on the back deck while working and the pensioners comment on it when I tie up at the wharf.

Making it yourself is practical if you don't use much, you have to have a batch on the go all the time. Its cheap to make and the only tax payable then is on the additives, the name of which escapes me at the moment but details are easy to find on the web. Once I retire and have to just feed a yacht diesel I might consider making it myself. Lot of people do make it now and this has caused a shortage of Mercedes 300D's on the market, they love bio.
 
Googling for the subject will find many articles. Most advocate mixing oil and diesel in no more than a 50/50 mix. In the uk individuals can use up to 2500 litres of vegetable oil as fuel per year before it becomes liable to excise duty. Even when it is taxed I believe it still works out cheaper per litre than full-tax diesel.
Many people are successfully using it in cars and boats - the web articles tell you all you need to know.
 
I run one of my cars on a mix of diesel and 50% new veg oil, but I would not run it in my boat. Now that the morning are getting colder it is getting more difficult to start and I shall be changing to 25% oil. I would not run used oil under any circumstances, but do plan to begin processing old oil to make bio deisel, which I still will not use in the boat becauase I use so little that it is not worth the risk.
As pointed out, there is now no need to register with Customs and Excise or to pay duty for producers of less than 2500 litres per annum.

Martin
 
The whole subject of bio fuels is very complicated and the enviromental benefits are not clear yet. The process of making it produces lots of waste by-product and the energy used to grow, harvest and produce it has be accounted for. The much better and cleaner way to go is using ethanols produced from sugers, as they do in Brazil very sucessfully.

Seems to be confusion here to what constitutes Bio diesel and pure veg oil and in what quantities and engines it can be used. Bio diesel can be made from different sources, including veg oil but it has to be processed with a catalyst and additives put in to make it usable by most engines. Most modern road diesels (high pressure common rail) will accept 5 % bio, as is already in most road fuel but the manufactors wont warrant using higher amounts. They probably would run on them but they cant guarantee they wont bugger up because they cant be sure of the quality of the fuel. I dont think its worth the risk of damaging your new car. Of course an old 300 Merc is a different case. An older marine engine would probably run on anything here as long as its clean of water and organic particles.
Ive not heard of the 2500 litre tax exemption though, is this just for marine use?
 
I know at least three people who are running engines on cooking oil, two of them have been using it for well over a year and all without problems, they all reckon it improves economy and makes their engines run smoother.
Also why have the expense of going round picking up used oil? They all buy it new/fresh in 20L cans from caterting suppliers. I have a new engine in my boat but as soon as it has a few more hours on it, I intend to do the same.
The thought of paying road duty on fuel to use my boat seems only something that this crazy government could devise.
 
The HMRC site gives the full detail of the present tax position. Here.

The removal of the requirement to pay tax below 2500 litre/annum consumption ceased on 30th June 2007.

The best injection pumps for vegetable oil use are Bosch as the Lucas ones break in cold weather with vegetable oil.

If more modern engines with common rail or other forms of high pressure injection are to run on vegetable oil, the oil must be heated and a conversion is necessary involving a second tank and purging systems.

When Gordon Brown apparently gives away some of the money he is taking in tax it is only common sense to assume there has to be a catch. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
The small diesel powered boat on Loch Katrine runs on bio-diesel. It does give off the aroma of the chippy. The Sir Walter Scott is due to be converted from coal-fired to burning bio-diesel this winter. It will still be a steam boat however as they do not plan to change the engine.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think you will find that after sitting in the tank for more than 3 months it turns to jelly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite a statement !! Your source ??

Cheers
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you will find that after sitting in the tank for more than 3 months it turns to jelly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite a statement !! Your source ??

Cheers

[/ QUOTE ]I declined to reply earlier but.. I have home made "Bio Diesel" sitting in drums for more than 18 months and no signs of any "jelly", there is a lot of unsubstantiated personal opinions posted on these forums at times. Properly prepared Bio is every bit as good as "Dino" diesel. I've using the stuff for many years and have not had any go "off" and NEVER had any turn to "jelly".

[/rant mode]


Tom.
 
From Here!
PA140046.jpg


That's me in the white shirt!!
 
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Unfortunately there is no emoticon for SMD.......

Tom
 
SMD.......???

mind's gone, to many beers while whatching GP.


(waxing) that's what i should have said, not jelly.. sorry /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
you are a bit out of date, 2500 litres per year for personal use has recently come out. there are 2 ways of using veg oil in a diesel, esterisation, (spelling?) by mixing with caustic soda and methanol OR straight mixing diesel and veg oil, depending on the ratio pre heating may or not be needed, my authority has been doing tests on some of our fleet and we are using 30% veg oil in diesel with a secret additve to prevent waxing. it was used last winter in our gritters, they are MANs and have heated fuel lines etc.
 
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