Can I accept a small donation towards fuel cost in lieu of fare

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Marilyn Crook

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Hi. Can someone please advise me on the following:
I have a pontoon boat (I believe the only one in the UK- I imported it from Florida 2 years ago) which can easily take 12 passengers and it is berthed on Cardiff Bay. I am retired and use my boat for personal use. A lot of people are asking if I will take them for a tour of the Bay on my boat but I do not want to start it as a full or part time business. Obviously this would be costly so I was wondering if I can I legally accept a small donation to cover fuel costs?
 
Marilyn Crook said:
Hi. Can someone please advise me on the following:
I have a pontoon boat (I believe the only one in the UK- I imported it from Florida 2 years ago) which can easily take 12 passengers and it is berthed on Cardiff Bay. I am retired and use my boat for personal use. A lot of people are asking if I will take them for a tour of the Bay on my boat but I do not want to start it as a full or part time business. Obviously this would be costly so I was wondering if I can I legally accept a small donation to cover fuel costs?
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Ask your insurers first. If they don't mind, you'd then need to check whether the boat would have to be coded.
 
I don't think so, because these people are the general public not friends or family, so you need to be a 'coded' commercial operation.
 
I'd write to the MCA and get their official view. It will save any confusion and a bun fight in court should anything happen. Your insurance company should also be advised as they, quite rightly, will have a view.
 
A day out with your mates is fine.

But regardless of paid or freebies, if you're taking random members of the public for joy rides you'll need insurance. You and any crew will need a commercial ticket. The boat would have to be coded. I think that might be difficult unless it has a CE Certificate of compliance, which a US pontoon boat likely won't have. You'll also have to consider local authority licensing of passenger trips and take account of the views of existing local competition.

The other factor is the conditions. My own view is that a pontoon boat is unsuitable, Cardiff Bay isn't like the everglades or the ICW.
 
Scala said:
A day out with your mates is fine.

But regardless of paid or freebies, if you're taking random members of the public for joy rides you'll need insurance. You and any crew will need a commercial ticket. The boat would have to be coded. I think that might be difficult unless it has a CE Certificate of compliance, which a US pontoon boat likely won't have. You'll also have to consider local authority licensing of passenger trips and take account of the views of existing local competition.

The other factor is the conditions. My own view is that a pontoon boat is unsuitable, Cardiff Bay isn't like the everglades or the ICW.
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In confined waters, the coding requirements are surprisingly light. You'd need a boatman's licence as well. (Or a commercially endorsed Day Skipper ticked would do if it's only by day and in familiar waters.)
 
"Pleasure vessel" as defined in the Merchant Shipping (Vessels in Commercial Use for Sport or Pleasure) Regulations 1998 (SI 1998 No. 2771), as amended, means: (a) any vessel which at the time it is being used is: (i)(aa) in the case of a vessel wholly owned by an individual or individuals, used only for the sport or pleasure of the owner or the immediate family or friends of the owner; or (bb) in the case of a vessel owned by a body corporate, used only for sport or pleasure and on which the persons on board are employees or officers of the body corporate, or their immediate family or friends; and (ii) on a voyage or excursion which is one for which the owner does not receive money for or in connection with operating the vessel or carrying any person, other than as a contribution to the direct expenses of the operation of the vessel incurred during the voyage or excursion; or ...

From
https://assets.publishing.service.g...a/file/769826/Workboat_Code_2_FINAL_12.18.pdf
 
Marilyn Crook said:
Hi. Can someone please advise me on the following:
I have a pontoon boat (I believe the only one in the UK- I imported it from Florida 2 years ago) which can easily take 12 passengers and it is berthed on Cardiff Bay. I am retired and use my boat for personal use. A lot of people are asking if I will take them for a tour of the Bay on my boat but I do not want to start it as a full or part time business. Obviously this would be costly so I was wondering if I can I legally accept a small donation to cover fuel costs?
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Doubt the MCA would authorise, unless you are commercially endorsed, then the local council would want a Boatman's Licence as well.
 
This has been discussed many times before on these forums. I think that lw395 has it right with the quote from the MGN in that the use of a privately owned pleasure vessel by anyone other than the owners, their friends or family means that vessel ceases to be a pleasure vessel and falls under the commercial code requirements.
To operate a coded vessel requires various bits of paper as well as commercial insurance. It may also require permission or a licence from the local authority/harbour master. Given that I think the OP is talking about trips inside the Cardiff Barrage, the actual coding of the boat may not be a massive problem but suspect that the rest of it will mean the venture won’t be viable. And that’s before the existing trip boats join in opposing the idea.
 
john_morris_uk said:
In confined waters, the coding requirements are surprisingly light. You'd need a boatman's licence as well. (Or a commercially endorsed Day Skipper ticked would do if it's only by day and in familiar waters.)
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Is there such a thing as a commercially endorsed day skipper? DS is not examined and most schools issue those tickets on the basis of turning up.
 
ridgy said:
Is there such a thing as a commercially endorsed day skipper? DS is not examined and most schools issue those tickets on the basis of turning up.
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DS isn't issued on the basis of turning up (or if it is and the RYA find out, the school and the YMI or CI will be in deep trouble).

Yes there is such a thing as a commercially endorsed DS.
 
Until recently I think people might have thought MCA would turn a blind eye. A mixture of events mean they are far more twitchy these days.

I know of a guy with a RIB on the South Coast who effectively advertised on Social Media for trips out with a charge for fuel and maybe some wear and tear. Wasn't running as a proper commercial arrangement. Was definitely more than saying to his mate "do you want to come for a buzz round the bay" and his mate saying "sure - I'll chip in for the fuel"... He had a visit from the MCA and was told to stop or he'd be formally told to stop...

The law is difficult to define as it says "friends"... ...that guys view was he was advertising on social media to make friends.

I think as soon as you are starting to say you need your "friends" to cover the costs... you may be saying they aren't friends. If you are going from A to B via C and staying at B and C friends will share costs naturally. If you are going for a buzz round from A back to A... do you really ask for £££... More likely they buy you a beer when back at the pub...
 
I was involved some years ago with our club launches and there are strict guidelines. It's OK for friends or club members to cost share, along the lines of car sharing but, even a pint of beer from a member of the public could be deemed valuable consideration, making it commercial. I wouldn't consider doing what the OP suggests without coding, insurance and qualification, an accident causing serious injury would leave him personally liable and most likely a prosecution.
 
There's a AWB that does tours of the bay from Mermaid Quay, might be worth speaking to him or even some of the other smaller tour boats. If they won't speak then have a word with the harbourmaster.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be too happy if members of the public were being taken out on the quiet on a regular basis!
 
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