Can fluorescent tube fixtures be repaired?

[PaulRainbow]

Cant resist, can I!! Paul. if you turn the tube round end for end (http://a365.acdc.co.za/Images//spec/LEDT8-A4C.pdf) the shorted end will feed the L to the other end of the fitting and to the N via the link and the tube. So the tube will work either way round. If you don't wire it as the data sheet and take the L & N to one end only, with no link between ends, the tube will provide a short circuit when fitted one way round. You can ignore the F symbol not sure what that is, never seen it. Definitely going for a beer!

I get how it works, it might be that the ones i have fitted have shorted pins too, i never checked, i just fitted them as per manufacturers instructions, the correct way around and didn't work on the 240v AC supply when turned on.

I'd say the F is a low current fuse, so if there is a short with one tube it doesn't take all the lights in the circuit out.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

I get how it works, it might be that the ones i have fitted have shorted pins too, i never checked, i just fitted them as per manufacturers instructions, the correct way around and didn't work on the 240v AC supply when turned on.

I'd say the F is a low current fuse, so if there is a short with one tube it doesn't take all the lights in the circuit out.

Well spotted. Just testing

 

[rogerthebodger]

There's no fun in arguing in an empty room

I just use facts for back up my arguments

As i aid there are different ways of design and having spent over 60 years in Engineering design yes 60 years I had found that several times ssome people with limited experience stick to the only way they know and if changed tend to react in a confrontation way.

All I said i the LED tubes I used were different than the one you used. I gave a reason for the difference which you challenged then Alex also confirmed my statement.

Just accept that there are different ways of doing a job which are acceptable. If you cannot accept that I pity you

I came back to give the forum some of my experience which is different to yours. If you cannot accept that you wont learn anything more

I don't wish to argue with any one including you

 

[Tinto]

It is not a hobby horse.

Some LED tubes do have diffusers but one poster made a suggestion which to me sounded like bare LED strips that can be stuck to a fitting. These do not have diffusers.

Why LED tubes are a stupid idea

1) the fitting is not designed to work with LED and so if there is a fault and electrical fire as a result the conversation with your insurance company will go like this

IC - so you had a fire. Was your installation standard or had it been modified?
You - I had an LED tube in it
IC - can you supply a certificate of conformity from the manufacturer of your luminaire for use with LED tubes?
You - eh, no.
IC - goodbye

2) about 15% of light fittings in installations have emergency battery back up. How does this work with an LED tube? Fact is that it doesn’t. Not an issue in residential installs right enough

3) light distribution- won’t be the same. So the light is not going to be where you want it and the luminance ratios in the room will have changed

Now, Comparing an LED tube to a 58W T8 colour 840 on HF gear. This has an efficiency of 100lumen per Watt

You could easily buy 2 of these for the £9.88 that’s https://www.toolstation.com/v-tac-t8-nano-plastic-led-tube/p77622asked for an LED tube at Toolstation

V-TAC T8 Nano Plastic LED Tube 20W 1500mm 2100lm 6500K | Toolstation


But let’s compare the two

Lumen output
T8 58W fluorescent - 5000 exit lumens at 50W on HF gear. 100 lumens per Watt
LED tube - 2000 exit lumens at 22W so less than 100 lumen per Watt

So no energy saving but what is clear you need to 2.5 LED tubes to replace 1nr T8, so it’s over £24 to buy three tubes and you still have to buy two more light fittings to run the 2 extra LED tubes.

For £24 you could by 5 T8 lamps with a combined lamp life of 100,000 hours. The LED has a life of 30.000 hours - average

Lumen depreciation - reduction in light output after a period of time
T8 10% after 20,000 hours
LED the one on Toolstation I found had no figure but the ones we tested were much worse than fluorescent.

Strobe effects at machinery
LED tube will flicker at 100Hz this can be a safety issue around engines.
T8 lamp on HF gear at 20kHz is perfectly safe around an engine and it’s belts etc

Colour rendering - no data given for LED tube. 84% for the T8 fluorescent.

So in summary the T8 lamp is better in every way to an LED tube.

If people find them brighter after replacing fluorescent it’s because fluorescent will keep going and going and going and not fail but light output is dropping. Additionally, people buy the cheap T8 lamps when the triphosphor lamps are much more efficient and have much batter light output over time.

This is not a hobby horse. These are the facts of the matter.

LED is a great light source but I would advise people to buy a dedicated LED fitting which is designed to work LEDs and has a driver inside.

Also, buy a fitting with a TPa rated diffuser. This will be made of polycarbonate, not PMMA or acrylic. Acrylic is made from petrol. It gets used by rocket hobbyists as rocket fuel. You don’t want that on your boat or your house. If you have a fire that acrylic diffuser is just a lump of fuel for it.

TPa rated polycarbonate does not burn.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Cant resist, can I!! Paul. if you turn the tube round end for end (http://a365.acdc.co.za/Images//spec/LEDT8-A4C.pdf) the shorted end will feed the L to the other end of the fitting and to the N via the link and the tube. So the tube will work either way round. If you don't wire it as the data sheet and take the L & N to one end only, with no link between ends, the tube will provide a short circuit when fitted one way round. You can ignore the F symbol not sure what that is, never seen it. Definitely going for a beer!

Is there a spare one going ?

 

[Karlsenkystfiske]

Lobe this forum. So much knowledge. So many people using their minds.
To address the most recent first

It is not a hobby horse.

Some LED tubes do have diffusers but one poster made a suggestion which to me sounded like bare LED strips that can be stuck to a fitting. These do not have diffusers.

Why LED tubes are a stupid idea

1) the fitting is not designed to work with LED and so if there is a fault and electrical fire as a result the conversation with your insurance company will go like this

IC - so you had a fire. Was your installation standard or had it been modified?
You - I had an LED tube in it
IC - can you supply a certificate of conformity from the manufacturer of your luminaire for use with LED tubes?
You - eh, no.
IC - goodbye

2) about 15% of light fittings in installations have emergency battery back up. How does this work with an LED tube? Fact is that it doesn’t. Not an issue in residential installs right enough

3) light distribution- won’t be the same. So the light is not going to be where you want it and the luminance ratios in the room will have changed

Now, Comparing an LED tube to a 58W T8 colour 840 on HF gear. This has an efficiency of 100lumen per Watt

You could easily buy 2 of these for the £9.88 that’s https://www.toolstation.com/v-tac-t8-nano-plastic-led-tube/p77622asked for an LED tube at Toolstation

V-TAC T8 Nano Plastic LED Tube 20W 1500mm 2100lm 6500K | Toolstation


But let’s compare the two

Lumen output
T8 58W fluorescent - 5000 exit lumens at 50W on HF gear. 100 lumens per Watt
LED tube - 2000 exit lumens at 22W so less than 100 lumen per Watt

So no energy saving but what is clear you need to 2.5 LED tubes to replace 1nr T8, so it’s over £24 to buy three tubes and you still have to buy two more light fittings to run the 2 extra LED tubes.

For £24 you could by 5 T8 lamps with a combined lamp life of 100,000 hours. The LED has a life of 30.000 hours - average

Lumen depreciation - reduction in light output after a period of time
T8 10% after 20,000 hours
LED the one on Toolstation I found had no figure but the ones we tested were much worse than fluorescent.

Strobe effects at machinery
LED tube will flicker at 100Hz this can be a safety issue around engines.
T8 lamp on HF gear at 20kHz is perfectly safe around an engine and it’s belts etc

Colour rendering - no data given for LED tube. 84% for the T8 fluorescent.

So in summary the T8 lamp is better in every way to an LED tube.

If people find them brighter after replacing fluorescent it’s because fluorescent will keep going and going and going and not fail but light output is dropping. Additionally, people buy the cheap T8 lamps when the triphosphor lamps are much more efficient and have much batter light output over time.

This is not a hobby horse. These are the facts of the matter.

LED is a great light source but I would advise people to buy a dedicated LED fitting which is designed to work LEDs and has a driver inside.

Also, buy a fitting with a TPa rated diffuser. This will be made of polycarbonate, not PMMA or acrylic. Acrylic is made from petrol. It gets used by rocket hobbyists as rocket fuel. You don’t want that on your boat or your house. If you have a fire that acrylic diffuser is just a lump of fuel for it.

TPa rated polycarbonate does not burn.

This is quite the surprise to me. I think most of us have been consuming information about how LED lights are the future and better than all the old ones. But now the fluorescent tubes are being taken off the market right? So that leaves ut with only LED lights to choose from?

I am sorry but you are incorrect.

I was technical manager for one of Europe’s leading commercial lighting companies for many years. I saw all sorts of things come to the market. It was my job to be aware of them and to brief the sales force as to why certain things were a bad idea.

Those led replacement tubes are right at the top of the stupid ideas list.

Page 9 onwards

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/1206/best-practice-guide-9.pdf

View attachment 156904
The OP states his optic had blackened. Therefore next to no light will come out of it.

If he uses LED strip without an optic he is introducing a bio hazard into his environment that can result in retina burn over a period of time. Additionally the light distribution will be in a narrow beam which unless ihe is lucky won’t be the light distribution he is after. He will have a puddle of light directly under the light fitting and nothing anywhere else.

My qualifications on this are

MSc Light and Lighting
25 years in the lighting industry mostly in design, product design and technical project management roles.

Trust me, I know what I am talking about

I glued LED strips around the engine room of my old boat. They had very sharp light indeed. Had no idea it could be harmfull to ones eyes. On top of that they only worked a year or two before they started failing. Due to fluctuatin voltages someone theorized.

These fixtures should be diffusing the light, and comes at a reasonable price I think. No rewiring, just taking away old and installing new.

 

[Tinto]

Lobe this forum. So much knowledge. So many people using their minds.
To address the most recent first




This is quite the surprise to me. I think most of us have been consuming information about how LED lights are the future and better than all the old ones. But now the fluorescent tubes are being taken off the market right? So that leaves ut with only LED lights to choose from?



I glued LED strips around the engine room of my old boat. They had very sharp light indeed. Had no idea it could be harmfull to ones eyes. On top of that they only worked a year or two before they started failing. Due to fluctuatin voltages someone theorized.

These fixtures should be diffusing the light, and comes at a reasonable price I think. No rewiring, just taking away old and installing new.

Due to the power of marketing we are all lead to believe that newer is better. That isn’t the case all the time. For example T5 fluorescent is newer than T8 but it is optimised to work at an ambient temperature of 35C, which is typical for the inside of a light fitting operating in a room temperature of 20C. So which lamp is best for the outdoor use T5 or T8. Clearly it’s T8. LED also loves the cold. However, using LED in a commercial bakery where the ambient temp is 50C up where the light fittings are then LED isn’t going to last very long. I could go on with other examples of how T5 isn’t as good as T8. There is no such thing as a “best lamp”. There is only the best lamp for the application at hand. I don’t think LED tubes ever win that prize though

I wouldn’t recommend T5 for a boat because it’s going to be too cold for it a lot of the time. Even though from an energy point of view it uses 20-25% less power.