Calling all Loch Lomond motor boat owners

Uricanejack said:
I personally saw first hand at least one serious accident caused by a total idiot in a motor boat on Loch Lomond.
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This is concern, I am told, that the yahoos displaced from Windermere by the ban there have moved their attention to Loch Lomond.

Note: not all the Windermere motobotors were yahoos; not all the Loch Lomond ones are yahoos.
 
There is no doubt a tiny percentile of idiots in both boats and jet skis, especially on a really nice summers day.
This is not the point though.
I would urge the people in the "idiot bracket" to wisen up a little. The LLPA don't need any other excuses.
 
A lot of the beaches down my way have strings of buoys keeping boats away from swimmers and where there's a launch place they have two rows of buoys forming an avenue for boats to go in and out.
 
QBhoy said:
There is no doubt a tiny percentile of idiots in both boats and jet skis, especially on a really nice summers day.
This is not the point though.
I would urge the people in the "idiot bracket" to wisen up a little. The LLPA don't need any other excuses.
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This is my major concern at Loch Lomond!

I've been boating at LL for over 35 years. Enjoying cruising, water skiing, wakeboarding and camping out in the more isolated spots. It's simply stunning!

For the most part Loch Lomond is empty; boating numbers have decreased over the last 10 years and on most days (except the height of summer) you can take a cruise from Balloch to Ardlui and back (some 50miles) and you might pass 2 or three boats if you are lucky.

So in summary, boating is not a major ecological impact on Loch Lomond (in my humble opinion).

However, I think boating could be getting "bad press" due to the effects of a minority of boaters / jet bikers that relish in flashing their stuff very close to shore around populated areas, notably around Luss and Milarrochy Bay. This is giving LLPA ammunition to argue the case against boating access to Loch Lomond; with the recent announcement a case in point.

Without doubt, the boating economy brings substantial income to the LLPA area. It is a safe hobby/ sport (with most deaths on the Loch coming from fishing related accidents).

But we need to protect our freedoms, and a large part of that it is by being good citizens and by adhering to the current speed restrictions where imposed.

I get infuriated by speed boats / jets bikes flying through the islands areas, where there is a 6knot speed limit, but some edjits think it's cool to drive through at 30knots. Yes very cool when you're actions could induce a total speed ban on the Loch! Especially when circa 2/3rds of the Loch has no speed restrictions.

I am concerned about increased controls on boating on Loch Lomond; to head that off we need EVERYONE including the prats who generally disregard the existing byelaws / speed restrictions to understand that if you don't abide by the rules, then you won't get to play; more importantly - we won't get to play either. So don't be bloody selfish; stick to the rules / byelaws / speed restrictions where imposed; and enjoy yourselves!

Remember, there's 2/3rds of the Loch where you can go as fast as you want; and at the same time where you won't annoy other LL visitors.
 
Well said Kenny.
I preferred it when there were no rules and speed limits....when it was just left to common sense and decency, not to tear through the islands (where kids play and folk might have a kettle on the boil etc). Unfortunately a few lack this sort of sense and decency. It's also unfortunate that those type, will probably not even be aware of this and the likely future implications.
I too get enraged by the odd idiot who doesn't realise that it's not ok to do 30mph up and down the river leven, clearly causing disturbance and minor damage to boats on their moorings.
Perhaps the LLPA should be concentrating more on educating, not restricting.
Perhaps an induction at the time of registration on the do's and definitely dont's would serve well.
 
Very well put by KennyH

I grew up in the local area. Loch Lomond started off as a beautiful day-trip visit by car, casual visits to go on lochside walks. My experience was transformed when I got my first Kayak then, after a few years, a touring Kayak. It transformed the experience because instead of standing looking at a painting in a gallery, it felt like entering into it. My first taste of the joy of being on top of moving water, interacting with it, the creativity involved in deciding where to paddle, how long to linger in a spot. The freedom of camping on the islands and finding peace. The loch meant freedom to me. These were days before mobile phones and I look back and admire my parents having the trust to let me disappear off for five days at a time.

There is an interesting video on youtube from STV's Weir's Way. Tom Weir went all over Scotland in a celebration of the outdoors and it was always excellent viewing. In this one you can listen to the vision of Bob Grieve https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZMec2PNdsY who largely wrote the first management plan for the area (in 1946). His earnest and simple objectivity is clear to see in the video.

I watched as the National Park status came in on the area and felt dismayed at the direction it took. Since then I have become aware of the implementation of UN policy formulated at the 1992 Earth Summit. That policy is called Agenda 21, and has been implemented at local level by every UK local authority since then, under a policy direction driven by the Blair Government.

I left Scotland to work abroad, enjoying boating in New Zealand, Australia, Europe and the Caribbean. On returning I was struck by how much different the loch felt. The 'Giro Bay' map fiasco was seen by some as simply errant behaviour from some senior managers on the National Park board.

Bosses at a national park have had to destroy thousands of copies of a new map of Loch Lomand which featured controversial names including a place called "Giro Bay", the name used for unemployment payments in Britain. A spokeswoman for Loch Lomond National Park said it was sorry for the "error of judgement". The map, which had been produced to replace one drawn up in 1861, also named areas after park employees.

Local people said the map was "a disgrace" and could have caused confusion and delay in the event of an accident. Ernie East, who has fished and kept a boat on Loch Lomond for 40 years, told BBC Radio Scotland that local people were "very annoyed" about the situation.

Mr East said calling the bay, on Inchmoan, "Giro Bay" was "derogatory".
He also said that the park authority was being a "megalomaniac" for naming areas after people. And he said the chart could have caused confusion and delay if there has been an accident on the loch. Mr East said rocks near Aber Isle, towards the southern end of the loch, have always been known as Aber Rocks. But the new chart christened them Chimmo Rocks. He believed that "nobody local will really know where they are".

Looking through the chart he also highlighted an area which it names as Cameron's Shallows. He said: "Nobody's ever heard of [them].Other controversial names named after staff included Archibald's Abyss and
Jessie's Shallow which it's not all that shallow. The shallow part is about 100 yards further south. Jessie's Shallow is over 45ft or 50ft deep. Archibald's Abyss, is the deepest part of Loch Lomond 640ft deep it too has been named after one of the staff.

The National Park said "We are grateful to local people for drawing this to our attention. As soon as we realised our mistake, immediate action was taken and we withdrew the chart.". Oh well they were only wasting public money

See also

https://stv.tv/news/west-central/233831-loch-lomond-map-withdrawn-after-giro-bay-name-controversy/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-12684156
http://publicauthoritywatcher.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/lessons-have-to-be-learned-from.html
http://www.scotsman.com/news/loch-lomond-map-removed-after-spot-dubbed-giro-bay-1-1530836
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/maps-loch-lomond-scrapped-after-2739385
http://forargyll.com/?p=35717

The national park reacted to the near riot of protestors assembled at their grand HQ by backtracking and claiming there had been an error of judgment. Giro Bay led the headlines, but I and many others felt there was more to it.

By changing place names, including naming parts of the loch after people in the National Park, it was an act of dominance. I believe it was part of a culture of establishing their authority over the landscape and the people using the park.

My paddling was less frequent due to work and family commitments but what I did begin to notice was the appearance of powerful national park patrol boats. From the feelings of freedom I experience as a teenager the juxtaposition was stark. It felt malevolent.

Since then, the same feeling sweeps across me every time I journey down the loch on my commute and see the national park watercraft. I was thinking about putting my small yacht on the water for a season but am now not sure I would like to have to put up with the environment the NP has created.

Then came car-park charging:
http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2016/08/22/charging-access-part-commercial-agenda-lltnpa/

Then came the camping ban: http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/?s=camping
What could have been easily sorted by providing funding to the police to sort out a localised problem has resulted in a complete ban on camping for everyone in the prohibited areas.

A further example: Filming in the park
http://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/park-authority/doing-business-here/filming-in-the-park/
At what point does someone enter into this sort of governance? Is it really a requirement?

So I am not surprised to see this most recent advancement of the NP control over loch lomond. I wonder whether Robert Grieve's grave is slowly starting to spin as he sees the direction the park is taking. Its certainly not now the restful place I used to love.
They have seriously marred the experience and love I used to feel for the place.

Good luck to those resisting the imposition of these changes. The fight is a difficult one. We all have our work and businesses to run whereas this take-over IS their business. It is their day job. I think the best way to proceed is to demonstrate that the policies do not reflect the vision and values statements and to set out how they clash with the statutory provisions in the National Parks Act (Scotland) Act 2000. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2000/10/contents

Parkwatch Scotland is probably the fastest critical overview of what is going on up here.
http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/category/loch-lomond-and-trossachs/

Sounding off on internet fora is not really enough - it too often leads to a 'well what can you do?' malaise - There is plenty an individual can do, but even more that small groups can do. Have a read of http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=3300&i=18057 and think about how the foregoing marries up with the vision and values of the NP. The way to go is the steady battle of ideas and to challenge these people in letters. They all have to be answerered. Form small groups of like minded people. Avoid forming large centralised campaigning groups - they are too easily subject to divide and conquer tactics. Keep it small, two to five in a group.

Always stay reasonable, always stay polite, make good arguments to support your case. The oldest political battle is the one between the control freaks and the great many of us who simply want to be left in peace. Would I support a national park that genuinely protected the area while really living up to the stated aims? Yes.

Do I support the NP in its current manifestion? Absolutely not - it is abhorrent.



Falling Penguin


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Some other links that may be of interest...

Background to the implementation of Local Agenda 21
http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/natparks/report4c.pdf

Agenda 21 in Scotland, Hansard
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/search/"agenda+21"%2BScotland

Agenda 21 Hansard references
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/search/"agenda+21"

Parkwatch Scotland
http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/category/loch-lomond-and-trossachs/
 
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Falling Penguin...
A master piece...superbly put and referenced. Would you mind if I referred to your piece in the fight against this ? I would like to share what you have written with others also campaigning.
 
QBhoy said:
Falling Penguin...
A master piece...superbly put and referenced. Would you mind if I referred to your piece in the fight against this ? I would like to share what you have written with others also campaigning.
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No problem, more than happy for you to share it...

FP
 
Thanks FP

I stick to the rules/byelaws - so why should my freedoms / enjoyment be decreased even further by the actions of the tiny tiny minority!

The NPA should make enforcement of the byelaws a priority rather than continuing to expand restrictions.

What REALLY p's me off is watching speeding boaters flying around within the very visible confines of the lower part of the Loch (right at Balloch where there is a speed restriction)....... The NPA is happy to define Speed restrictions zones but can't be ar$ed enforcing it right on their doorstep.

Surely if you nip it in the bud where the vast majority of launches are made, then you can significantly influence good behaviour on the Loch.
 
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I have no personal knowledge of this, but may I say that this thread is a great example of the Forum at its best. Well done to all contributers.
 
kennyh said:
Thanks FP

I stick to the rules/byelaws - so why should my freedoms / enjoyment be decreased even further by the actions of the tiny tiny minority!

The NPA should make enforcement of the byelaws a priority rather than continuing to expand restrictions.

What REALLY p's me off is watching speeding boaters flying around within the very visible confines of the lower part of the Loch (right at Balloch where there is a speed restriction)....... The NPA is happy to define Speed restrictions zones but can't be ar$ed enforcing it right on their doorstep.

Surely if you nip it in the bud where the vast majority of launches are made, then you can significantly influence good behaviour on the Loch.
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You are spot on Kenny. I'm wondering about the lack of enforcement over the speed limits, are the NPA deliberately allowing speeding in the hope that something serious happens and then they can turn round and say"hey we put limits on speed for the Loch but everyone ignores them and look what's happened. We must now have a full ban on power!!"
As Kenny knows I'm from a law background and to me is just doesn't make sense why they are not enforcing them. You can never fathom out the mindset of "Authorities".
 
QBhoy said:
Railbob
Please get involved. Have a look at the small print.
This is not acceptable.
Allan
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Sorry Allan only from enforcement side. But I do believe that they are working "Ultra Viries" that's to say outwith their powers. Fight on!!

Mon The Mirren!!
 
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Railbob,
A man of your talents would be useful, I'm certain.
Would be obliged if you kept track of this issue and offered opinions, from time to time.
It's obviously going to be a long disputed case.
 
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