Call yourself an engineer?

Poignard

Poignard

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What qualifies someone to describe themself as 'engineer'?

Years of theoretical and practical training at recocgnised institutions, a first-class degree, membership of a chartered institute, a great deal of relevant practical experience, design skills, an open mind, a willingness to learn and to keep up to date, communications skills, respect for the clients wishes and the equipment being designed or worked on etc.?

I reckon all of these are essential.

Or should people with lesser qualifications, such as mechanics or technicians, be entitled to call themselves engineeers if they want to?

What do others think?
 
Well whem I were a nipper there was an old bloke who fixed marine engines in Yarmouth for yachts and fishermen on the I O W., name of Robbie Lakeman (in case anyone else had the good fortune to cross his doorway)

He had done engineering in big ship engine rooms at sea so I suppose he had the tickets..

He had an airgun that he had 'knocked up' on the lathe in his workshop

More importantly when you,Joe Woe, described the symptoms of your ailing or sulking motor, he would listen very carefully and patiently while gazing out the window and then make the suggestion that would invariably get you up and running again.

He could pull most lumps apart and rebuild them--AND MAKE NEW PARTS @!!

Or as someone else described it ''An engineer will do for a fiver what a mechanic will do for £50''--Because the engineer has the skills to do more than keep swapping parts new for old.
 
parsifal said:
What qualifies someone to describe themself as 'engineer'?

Years of theoretical and practical training at recocgnised institutions, a first-class degree, membership of a chartered institute, a great deal of relevant practical experience, design skills, an open mind, a willingness to learn and to keep up to date, communications skills, respect for the clients wishes and the equipment being designed or worked on etc.?

I reckon all of these are essential.

Or should people with lesser qualifications, such as mechanics or technicians, be entitled to call themselves engineeers if they want to?

What do others think?
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On a serious note , I have found ,both in road transport and marine engineering,that there is no substitute for experience. When I have problems(obsolete engine and gearbox) I try to speak to the oldest engineer in the shop---hasn't failed yet!Don't know or care about paper qualifications---usually flourished by fitters!!!
 
I agree the term 'Engineer' is too loosely applied and does not differentiate between the person sent out to repair a washing machine and someone who is registered professionally with the Engineering Council. Unlike other professions true 'Engineers' do not get the recognition they deserve.
 
parsifal said:
What qualifies someone to describe themself as 'engineer'?

should people with lesser qualifications, such as mechanics or technicians, be entitled to call themselves engineeers if they want to?

What do others think?
Click to expand...

In my country that would be illegal. To be referred to as 'Engineer' you would need most of what you mentioned - degree, theoretical knowledge, practical experience, etc. - BUT it is essential to have a Warrant that is issued by the State on the recommendation of the Chamber of Engineers. This is only awarded after an intense interview following a minimum of three years experience in work that is directly relevant to the particular field. Only then is one legally recognised as an engineer and can take full legal responsibility for his work.

I would also attach a lot of importance to the having served a full apprenticeship. Perhaps I am biased or even old-fashioned. My son graduated as a mechanical engineer along with many others. I could see - as could his lecturers - the difference between him and most of his co-graduates. Since an early age he had been exposed to engineering at home; most of his friends had not had that privilege. He could better grasp what could be and what could - or ought -not be done.

However, a basic ingredient, a touch of magic, if you will, is creativity. Without it one is little more than a walking text-book.

On the many occasions when I was invited to lecture engineering students I always stressed two points:

(1) When I graduated I was able to design, if required, a machine that made bolts and a machine to make nuts. However, no book ever told me how to undo a jammed nut. To do that you need to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty.

(2) The guiding light for an engineer should be "I.C.U.C." (In my language that sounds like something that is not very flattering - 'I am an idiot' - and this helps them to remember it ;) ). ICUC stands for Idea - Commitment - Understanding - Creativity.

It is not enough that an engineer has an Idea. That is only the first step. The good engineer will have enough Commitment to see the Idea through to fruition. He needs a full understanding of the implications and of whatever factors are involved. But most of all he needs Creativity if he is to establish himself as an effective problem solver and earn the respect of his clients - as well as the people who work under his direction.

Well, you did ask! :)

My coffee's getting cold now, thanks to you. ;)
 
PuffTheMagicDragon said:
In my country that would be illegal. To be referred to as 'Engineer' you would need most of what you mentioned - degree, theoretical knowledge, practical experience, etc. - BUT it is essential to have a Warrant that is issued by the State on the recommendation of the Chamber of Engineers. This is only awarded after an intense interview following a minimum of three years experience in work that is directly relevant to the particular field. Only then is one legally recognised as an engineer and can take full legal responsibility for his work.

I would also attach a lot of importance to the having served a full apprenticeship. Perhaps I am biased or even old-fashioned. My son graduated as a mechanical engineer along with many others. I could see - as could his lecturers - the difference between him and most of his co-graduates. Since an early age he had been exposed to engineering at home; most of his friends had not had that privilege. He could better grasp what could be and what could - or ought -not be done.

However, a basic ingredient, a touch of magic, if you will, is creativity. Without it one is little more than a walking text-book.

On the many occasions when I was invited to lecture engineering students I always stressed two points:

(1) When I graduated I was able to design, if required, a machine that made bolts and a machine to make nuts. However, no book ever told me how to undo a jammed nut. To do that you need to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty.

(2) The guiding light for an engineer should be "I.C.U.C." (In my language that sounds like something that is not very flattering - 'I am an idiot' - and this helps them to remember it ;) ). ICUC stands for Idea - Commitment - Understanding - Creativity.

It is not enough that an engineer has an Idea. That is only the first step. The good engineer will have enough Commitment to see the Idea through to fruition. He needs a full understanding of the implications and of whatever factors are involved. But most of all he needs Creativity if he is to establish himself as an effective problem solver and earn the respect of his clients - as well as the people who work under his direction.

Well, you did ask! :)

My coffee's getting cold now, thanks to you. ;)
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A perfect answer. The German system, perhaps?
 
Curiously, in the offshore oil industry there are many "engineers" who are not actually qualified as such.
Sub Sea Engineers for example, are seldom officially qualified Engineers. They have 'come through the ranks' and shown themselves to be competent in their field ( Blow out prevention systems etc). The offshore industry traditionally put more emphasis on ability and competence rather than paper qualifications.
These days however, it is becoming more commonplace for the title *** Technician to be used.

There are good and bad sides to the old system - I know some excellent subsea engineers with no official Engineering qualifications. (These guys are still earning £100 000 + pa, with 6 months off per year, or Day Rating for £750/ day, so I don't suppose they are too upset that some people don't see them as proper Engineers). The system encouraged people to work hard and learn on the job.

Likewise, I know some younger Engineers, who have got degrees etc who are significantly less able - but they have the paper qualification.
On the other hand, I know some younger Engineers, who have got degrees etc who are absolutely brilliant at their job.

Personally, I agree that the term Engineer should be used in recognition of the years of study that have gone into obtaining the relevant qualification.
My own job description is a Subsea Sevice Technician, though I have colleagues doing the same job who call themselves Subsea Engineers.
 
would you call this guy an engineer:

He dismantles and reconditions a 50cc motorcycle engine at the age of 10 and on completion it starts first kick !, he then goes on to claim the school prize every year in metalcraft and design, after leaving school he then goes and serves his time as a mechanical engineer, and attaining a City and Guilds in the process, then after that he goes on to degree level in mechanical engineering at The School of Mechanical, Aerospace and Civil Engineering Manchester, designing,manufacturing then building a miniature steam locomotive as the final piece. over the last 20 odd years he's built everything from Wagon tipping gear, aircraft components and Jet engines. He has worked for famous companies reknown worldwide for engineering excellence such as Lucas Aerospace, Rolls Royce and Mercedes Benz.

in your opinion his he an engineer ?
 
JasonClark said:
would you call this guy an engineer:

He dismantles and reconditions a 50cc motorcycle engine at the age of 10 and on completion it starts first kick !, he then goes on to claim the school prize every year in metalcraft and design, after leaving school he then goes and serves his time as a mechanical engineer, and attaining a City and Guilds in the process, then after that he goes on to degree level in mechanical engineering at The School of Mechanical, Aerospace and Civil Engineering Manchester, designing,manufacturing then building a miniature steam locomotive as the final piece. over the last 20 odd years he's built everything from Wagon tipping gear, aircraft components and Jet engines. He has worked for famous companies reknown worldwide for engineering excellence such as Lucas Aerospace, Rolls Royce and Mercedes Benz.

in your opinion his he an engineer ?
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Nope, yer propper injuneeer always got reel tule kit, like set of big 'ammers fer pershwasion like! If it's bust yer gotter 'it it good'n'ard!
 
Engineers / Technicians

Where I work we have Technicians - usually degree desk based engineers, if we have a breakdown and call them out, some (not all) struggle... I was once asked which way to turn a nut to do it up!! - and that person was a member of the Institute Of Engineers!!!

At a lower level (such as me!) we have apprenticed tradepersons (very mixed backgrounds Aerospace, Automotive, Boatbuilding (me)), but we all know how to repair the Electro/Pneumatic PLC controlled equipment that we maintain..

I would say that an engineer is someone who with experiance is able to repair/re-build/build mechanical equipment. Practical experience, not a desk jockey who got an engineering degree, who has never been on the tools..
 
puddock said:
My own job description is a Subsea Sevice Technician, though I have colleagues doing the same job who call themselves Subsea Engineers.
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Well in our company most of the sub sea engineers were ex Marine chief engineers and so bought a wealth of experience to the field..Once you have graduated to the heights of chief engineer the hydraulics devised by Koomey and Cameron are child,s play . Happy Daz:) Just help keep them turning to the right.
 
JasonClark said:
would you call this guy an engineer:

He dismantles and reconditions a 50cc motorcycle engine at the age of 10 and on completion it starts first kick !, he then goes on to claim the school prize every year in metalcraft and design, after leaving school he then goes and serves his time as a mechanical engineer, and attaining a City and Guilds in the process, then after that he goes on to degree level in mechanical engineering at The School of Mechanical, Aerospace and Civil Engineering Manchester, designing,manufacturing then building a miniature steam locomotive as the final piece. over the last 20 odd years he's built everything from Wagon tipping gear, aircraft components and Jet engines. He has worked for famous companies reknown worldwide for engineering excellence such as Lucas Aerospace, Rolls Royce and Mercedes Benz.

in your opinion his he an engineer ?
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Given a bit more experience he would be well on the way to becoming one. :D
 
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