JonJon
Well-Known Member
I hear a lot about calibrated chain. Can anyone enlighten me - who makes it how do they calibrate it? Do they make it differently?
Calibrated Chain
- Thread starter JonJon
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Talbot
Well-Known Member
Calibrated chain is designed to be used in a windlass. If you use the wrong chain in the windlass (i.e. one not calibrated to that type of windlass), there is a danger that the chain can jump out of the gypsy while it is under load.
26ft_bathtub
Well-Known Member
Specifically, the size of the links are calibrated (matched) to the gypsy.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
It is calibrated to suit the gypsy of the windlass, i.e. so it fits properly and doesn't tend to jump off when hauling it in. It is obviously more expensive and when you order it you need to specify the make/type of windlass or send the gypsy to the chain maker if it is not a common type. As far as I know, there is only one firm making chain in the UK and that is Griff Chain Ltd. Another firm, Bradneys, used to make chain but now don't. They claim their quality control is so good that the chain they sell is as good as they used to make.
If you order a length of chain it's worth having an enlarged link fitted at the anchor end so you can use a decent sized anchor shackle.
I recently bought a 60 metre length from Griff's and I'm entirely satisfied with it. Carriage charges are high though [£50].
How do they calibrate it? They used to make it a fraction short and then stretch it but nowadays they may have sophisticated machines to make it exactly to size.
If you order a length of chain it's worth having an enlarged link fitted at the anchor end so you can use a decent sized anchor shackle.
I recently bought a 60 metre length from Griff's and I'm entirely satisfied with it. Carriage charges are high though [£50].
How do they calibrate it? They used to make it a fraction short and then stretch it but nowadays they may have sophisticated machines to make it exactly to size.
JonJon
Well-Known Member
So does each windlass/gypsy manufacturer have to make his own chain or is say a 10 mm chain a - 10mm chain?
Poignard
Well-Known Member
My Lofrans windlass needs 5/16" [8mm] chain made to a DIN 766 standard. I tried this chain on an old Moyle 5/16" windlass I was thinking of buying and it didn't fit [even though the gypsy was new]. This was disappointing because the Moyle windlass seemed better than the Lofrans. I suspect you can only get calibrated DIN766 chain or special chain for Simpson-Lawrence windlasses now.
Salty John
Well-Known Member
10mm chain can be 10mm x 28pitch x 34 width, DIN766, calibrated, which fits most windli. Or it can be 10mm x 30 pitch x 35 width, calibrated, which fits Lewmar and, maybe Quick.
DIN766 seems to be the more universal standard calibrated chain in UK, but I understand that Lofrans and Quick are a bit different. The rule is - take a piece of chain to the windlass before buying chain or windlass. A mismatched chain is a miserable affair as I know to my cost.
DIN766 seems to be the more universal standard calibrated chain in UK, but I understand that Lofrans and Quick are a bit different. The rule is - take a piece of chain to the windlass before buying chain or windlass. A mismatched chain is a miserable affair as I know to my cost.
JonJon
Well-Known Member
Ah hah! - I knew there had to be a standard somewhere - German as usual! Many thanks Twisterowner.
Salty John
Well-Known Member
8mm DIN766 seems to fit all windlasses - all manufacturers seem to have standardised on this and 6mm sizes, but not 10mm. 9mm x 24 x 26, DIN766, may fit imperial 5/16" gypsies. This is because imperial chain is made to 1/32" bigger than the nominal gauge. At least this is so in the USA.
I'm not the oracle on chains, but I have a 2" thick file from which I'm dredging up this information!! I think I need to get out more.
I'm not the oracle on chains, but I have a 2" thick file from which I'm dredging up this information!! I think I need to get out more.
JonJon
Well-Known Member
We all do! Thanks !
GMac
Well-Known Member
Chain is calibrated in the factory on quite a sexy machine. Some have very flash ones which do the proof test at the same time. Others use 2 machines.
Chain is calibrated as most is used on wheels/sprockets/gypsies in many assorted areas, one being anchor winches.
All good well made short link chain is calibrated. As are many other formations as well i.e regular and some long links.
Have not seen a well (or any) calibrated chain out of china, even though they make and sell a supposed DIN standard chain.
The most highly calibrated chain is the DIN766/A (the '/A' is important). The DIN 8 thru 13mm sizes have a tollerance of +2.5mm/-0.5mm per 11 links.
Other Stds like EN818-3, the US standards and the like are also calibrated but not to such a high degree, usually +/-1mm per link in the 10mm sized area. These chains are no problem in the right gypsy and will work just as well as the DIN. ASSUMING YOU GET THE MATCHING GYPSY.
8mm chain is not a 5/16" just as 10mm is not a 3/8". This is very important on most gypsies. Lorfans do have some gypsies which will do both on the same one but most winch guys have a seperate gypsy for each one.
All good winch manufacturers build gypsys to suit all the common chains available around the world. Maxwell, Quick, Lofrans all make gypsies to suit the US, DIN and EN standards. Lewmar (Simpson Lawance is now called Lewmar) has recently expanded their range to suit all as well (finally).
The winch guys make gypsys to suit all the chains not the other way around.
To match a gypsy to a chain you have a couple fo options:
1, Take the gypsy with you and try. IF IN ANY DOUBT USE THIS OPTION.
2, Look on the side of the gypsies chain pockets (where the chain sits in it) and most will have either a number or an actual size it was designed for. The numbers are usually 3 diget i.e a Maxwell '058' means it is a 10mm DIN chain where a '053' is a EN 10mm.
Lorfans are good mostly and use the actual size, you may have for example '10mm P30' meaning this will take a 10mm chain with a 30mm pitch (internal length of each link) i.e a EN818-3 standard chain. The same gypsy, mostly a Lofrans only thing, could have '3/8"' meaning it should also take a US 3/8" HT chain.
Lewmar has codes like RS303 and similar. Any Lewmar dealer should be able to suss their book and tell you what chain it is for. 13mm DIN, I think.
3, Take a bit or measure very well ('close as' is not good enuff and may lead to problems after someone has cut it and you try to return it) of your old chain. Watch out for wear as it could give a dodgy pitch measurement, use a un-used bit if you can. Any good chain fondler should be able to match a new chain from this.
4, Take a guess. Not a good option but one many seem to think will work. Sometimes the odd person does get lucky but mostly they don't.
Why use a calibrated chain? So it works well and so the chain and gypsy last for a long time.
What un-calibrated chain can do in a anchor winch:
Jump and skip on the way out and in again - not good in any way.
Jamb and blow the gypsy apart - new gearbox, gypsy and main shaft at least. BIG $$. Sadly becoming common.
Void Warrantee with most manufacturers. Some even state 'Use chinese chain and no Warrantee'. This is purely due to poor if any calibration.
Cut body parts off when your trying to get the system to work. Surprisingly not that un-common, makes you wonder about some people.
What chain to buy?
The size that fits the gypsy obviously.
One from a good manfacturer. How do you know? Ask for a Test Certificate. ALL good manufacturers will provide one if asked. The Test Cert will show what standard it was built to, the material used, all loads (WLL, Proof and break) and most importantly who made it and where. I'm guessing most know what countries make better quality goods than others.
Where to buy? In the UK there is Griff chains which I don't know much about but they do have happy customers looking at this board. Another I know of is a crowd called 'EyeCo Ltd' in Ipswich. I don't know the company at all but I do know they sell 'Maggi' chains from Italy which are damn good (as used by Lewmar I'm told). Maggi make both DIN and EN standard chains. There must be others as well.
Better stop before you overload.
Hope that helps.
Chain is calibrated as most is used on wheels/sprockets/gypsies in many assorted areas, one being anchor winches.
All good well made short link chain is calibrated. As are many other formations as well i.e regular and some long links.
Have not seen a well (or any) calibrated chain out of china, even though they make and sell a supposed DIN standard chain.
The most highly calibrated chain is the DIN766/A (the '/A' is important). The DIN 8 thru 13mm sizes have a tollerance of +2.5mm/-0.5mm per 11 links.
Other Stds like EN818-3, the US standards and the like are also calibrated but not to such a high degree, usually +/-1mm per link in the 10mm sized area. These chains are no problem in the right gypsy and will work just as well as the DIN. ASSUMING YOU GET THE MATCHING GYPSY.
8mm chain is not a 5/16" just as 10mm is not a 3/8". This is very important on most gypsies. Lorfans do have some gypsies which will do both on the same one but most winch guys have a seperate gypsy for each one.
All good winch manufacturers build gypsys to suit all the common chains available around the world. Maxwell, Quick, Lofrans all make gypsies to suit the US, DIN and EN standards. Lewmar (Simpson Lawance is now called Lewmar) has recently expanded their range to suit all as well (finally).
The winch guys make gypsys to suit all the chains not the other way around.
To match a gypsy to a chain you have a couple fo options:
1, Take the gypsy with you and try. IF IN ANY DOUBT USE THIS OPTION.
2, Look on the side of the gypsies chain pockets (where the chain sits in it) and most will have either a number or an actual size it was designed for. The numbers are usually 3 diget i.e a Maxwell '058' means it is a 10mm DIN chain where a '053' is a EN 10mm.
Lorfans are good mostly and use the actual size, you may have for example '10mm P30' meaning this will take a 10mm chain with a 30mm pitch (internal length of each link) i.e a EN818-3 standard chain. The same gypsy, mostly a Lofrans only thing, could have '3/8"' meaning it should also take a US 3/8" HT chain.
Lewmar has codes like RS303 and similar. Any Lewmar dealer should be able to suss their book and tell you what chain it is for. 13mm DIN, I think.
3, Take a bit or measure very well ('close as' is not good enuff and may lead to problems after someone has cut it and you try to return it) of your old chain. Watch out for wear as it could give a dodgy pitch measurement, use a un-used bit if you can. Any good chain fondler should be able to match a new chain from this.
4, Take a guess. Not a good option but one many seem to think will work. Sometimes the odd person does get lucky but mostly they don't.
Why use a calibrated chain? So it works well and so the chain and gypsy last for a long time.
What un-calibrated chain can do in a anchor winch:
Jump and skip on the way out and in again - not good in any way.
Jamb and blow the gypsy apart - new gearbox, gypsy and main shaft at least. BIG $$. Sadly becoming common.
Void Warrantee with most manufacturers. Some even state 'Use chinese chain and no Warrantee'. This is purely due to poor if any calibration.
Cut body parts off when your trying to get the system to work. Surprisingly not that un-common, makes you wonder about some people.
What chain to buy?
The size that fits the gypsy obviously.
One from a good manfacturer. How do you know? Ask for a Test Certificate. ALL good manufacturers will provide one if asked. The Test Cert will show what standard it was built to, the material used, all loads (WLL, Proof and break) and most importantly who made it and where. I'm guessing most know what countries make better quality goods than others.
Where to buy? In the UK there is Griff chains which I don't know much about but they do have happy customers looking at this board. Another I know of is a crowd called 'EyeCo Ltd' in Ipswich. I don't know the company at all but I do know they sell 'Maggi' chains from Italy which are damn good (as used by Lewmar I'm told). Maggi make both DIN and EN standard chains. There must be others as well.
Better stop before you overload.
Hope that helps.
JonJon
Well-Known Member
Very interesting, I shall be inspecting my Lofrans gypsy and chain a bit more carefully now as it does have an occasional tendency to jam when hauling in (usually at an awkward moment) necessitating retrieval of a spanner to remove two bolts on a cover plate to unjam - as long as I have the spanner handy it doesnt jam you know murphys law stuff. Both windlass and chain came with the boat so am a bit unsure what was purchased
GMac
Well-Known Member
We have seen the odd Lofrans gypsy with no markings. Generally they are now all are but if you have an older one (3 years odd +) don't be surprised to find no marking.
The 'odd' jamb does happen even when things are well matched. Chain being highly flexible, boats bouncing around and the odd thing like that can cause the odd hiccup. If it happens enuff that you stop saying "Err... that's odd" you probably have a small issue. If you are at the stage of saying "Oh F*** ! Not again" you do have a problem /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
If you ever get a chance to see thru a chain factory it is surprisingly interesting. The chain goes thru a lot more than you would think before getting out the door. The best bit is all the big hydraulics, welders, sparks and things that can heat steel from cool to 100's of degrees in a few seconds, cool it then heat it up again and cool it during the 'normalising' process. All too good for your average bloke /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The 'odd' jamb does happen even when things are well matched. Chain being highly flexible, boats bouncing around and the odd thing like that can cause the odd hiccup. If it happens enuff that you stop saying "Err... that's odd" you probably have a small issue. If you are at the stage of saying "Oh F*** ! Not again" you do have a problem /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
If you ever get a chance to see thru a chain factory it is surprisingly interesting. The chain goes thru a lot more than you would think before getting out the door. The best bit is all the big hydraulics, welders, sparks and things that can heat steel from cool to 100's of degrees in a few seconds, cool it then heat it up again and cool it during the 'normalising' process. All too good for your average bloke /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
JonJon
Well-Known Member
Think I'm partly between "thats odd" and Oh F*** . I have a sneaky feeling there is no marking on my Gypsy as I seem to remember having a look for a part no or something before. I think slow and steady stopping every now and then to slow speed of retrieval helps. The jamming occurs on the chain locker side of the Gypsy so it could be the chain not getting away fast enough. There does not appear to be any jumping of the chain around the gypsy indicating I would think they are reasonably well matched especially under load.
If I can solve this problem I then only have to worry about the shaft of the anchor clouting the underside of the roller reefing as it overboards or retrieves! Ah the pleasures of a quiet anchorage!!
If I can solve this problem I then only have to worry about the shaft of the anchor clouting the underside of the roller reefing as it overboards or retrieves! Ah the pleasures of a quiet anchorage!!
GMac
Well-Known Member
Sounds as if the chain/gypsy match is OK. This is good.
Could be a anchor locker depth or shape issue maybe. Sounds a bit like a pyramiding issue i.e chain pileing up, hiccup occurs, chain pile falls over and all is good again.
If this could be something try 'borrowing' a road cone (the nice red ones which the road workers use) and put that directly under the haswer pipe so the chain lands smack on the pointy bit. This cause the chain to be pushed outwards in your locker and give it more room to get more on top. If this works use the cone for a mould and make a nice glass/kevlar one. Being a honest boatie, as we all are /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif you can then return the borrowed cone.
Could be a anchor locker depth or shape issue maybe. Sounds a bit like a pyramiding issue i.e chain pileing up, hiccup occurs, chain pile falls over and all is good again.
If this could be something try 'borrowing' a road cone (the nice red ones which the road workers use) and put that directly under the haswer pipe so the chain lands smack on the pointy bit. This cause the chain to be pushed outwards in your locker and give it more room to get more on top. If this works use the cone for a mould and make a nice glass/kevlar one. Being a honest boatie, as we all are /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif you can then return the borrowed cone.
