Calcification in the heads

[xhurleyman]

yesterday I serviced all the component gaskets etc in my heads but now consider replacing the outflow pipe but hascanyonevflushwd through Calgon to remove that calcification?
If not, is there any reason why a concertina type hose is used. Could a similar flexible hose be utilised. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[xhurleyman]

I have not been on this forum for ages andcwas not sure if this post went.
Can abyone tell me if they have tried to use Calgon in the heads to remove calcification.
Also is there an alternative outflow pipe of the correct diameter for a Blakes Seacock, if I cant find pipe like the concertina or fluted pipe and if so where to buy other than a Chandlers. Cheers!

 

[Iliade]

Sanitary waste hose is not normally concertina form. It is however designed to prevent the permeation of odours through the hose wall, so I would advise against using any other type. The real stuff is smooth and tolerably hard to bend. If your installation needs sharper bends than it can accomodate I'd either use swept bends or change the layout.

Saniflex Rubber Sanitation Hose 38mm White Toilet Waste Pipe Boat Marine SH38 | eBay

https://www.force4.co.uk/item/Force-4/Low-Odour-Toilet-Hose-per-meter/

Most people use a hammer to clear the calcification in the hose. It is usually way heavier than a quick dose of 'domestic' acid will sort.

 

[VicS]

I have not been on this forum for ages andcwas not sure if this post went.
Can abyone tell me if they have tried to use Calgon in the heads to remove calcification.
Also is there an alternative outflow pipe of the correct diameter for a Blakes Seacock, if I cant find pipe like the concertina or fluted pipe and if so where to buy other than a Chandlers. Cheers!

Calgon wont remove it.

See ASAP supplies for hose Sanitation Hose and Waste Water Hose

.

 

[Daydream believer]

I have tried squeezing the sanitation hose with a small "G" clamp. That breaks up the calcium enough for it to start moving & form a total blockage at the next junction

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Our sea toilet blocked just as we came in from a 36hr crossing much of that in fog. Oh well need to get it clear before we leave boat on moorings for a month - part of the joy of boat ownership.

I was astonished that the jabsco non return rubber insert was completely distorted by limescale. After all though water in my residential town of Bristol is hard, the flushing water is sea water and in my mind not hard - molluscs and corals must get calcium from seawater so I was wrong in that assumption.

I have used spirits of salt (hydrochloric acid) to clear the bowl scum, but now realise that I must let it permeate the pump as well. I was nervous about its effect on the skin fitting but short of pouring gallons of the stuff into the bowl, none will reach the fitting until it is flushed through to clear the system, and I believe bronze has some resistance to acid unlike brass.

Happily in Brittany I picked up a half full bottle of "Muratic acid" (same stuff) lying around by the recycling - indeed lots of half full or empty by various marina recycling points. And this cleared all the crud off the valve in my emergency works.

It is increasing hard to get domestic hydrochloric acid in the UK and I can only get it mail order or click and collect at commercial cleaning supplier. Clearly the French/Bretons have no such qualms in selling it. Some much for the slander that French plumbing and toilets are inferior or neglected - clearly not so in the boating world

 

[MAURICE]

i understand that salt water reacts with your urine and forms this lime scale over the years. When i leave my boat i flush the system with fresh water pumping it out several times. This seems to have elevated the problem. I also used diluted brick cleaner in the past to help clear the pipes. They sell it in Spain as Agua feute (hard water) which is the same stuff diluted acid.

 

[vyv_cox]

Hydrochloric acid clears limescale well, which is why it is sold in hardware shops all over Europe. It is good for relatively minor accumulations of scale in the toilet but would require vast volumes to clear the hose. Mechanical methods are far more effective.
In the normal concentrations available, usually 6% w/w, it will not attack brass, bronze or stainless steel.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Be cairful if you use any acid to try to clear any hose in place. I blew apart my Henderson Mk 5 pump on my lavac head by pumping Hydrochloric acid through the head.

The best way I found was to remove the hose and beat it on a concrete pathway to brek up any calcium build up

 

[veshengro]

I hear that when leaving the boat unattended for a while, if a commercial cleaning fluid is not available, 2 litres of full strength...not the 'Light' healthy stuff...Coca Cola emptied into the heads will shift limescale. Pour some in, a few pumps to the flood the system then the rest of America's finest pop into the bowl, and leave it to bubble.

It will shift rusted bolts, clean ferrous metals, and eventually remove the enamel from teeth, so limescale shouldn't be a problem

 

[rogerthebodger]

I hear that when leaving the boat unattended for a while, if a commercial cleaning fluid is not available, 2 litres of full strength...not the 'Light' healthy stuff...Coca Cola emptied into the heads will shift limescale. Pour some in, a few pumps to the flood the system then the rest of America's finest pop into the bowl, and leave it to bubble.

It will shift rusted bolts, clean ferrous metals, and eventually remove the enamel from teeth, so limescale shouldn't be a problem

That's because coca cola contains phosphoric acid which is one of the acids car bodies before washing and painting

 

[Mistroma]

Hydrochloric acid clears limescale well, which is why it is sold in hardware shops all over Europe. It is good for relatively minor accumulations of scale in the toilet but would require vast volumes to clear the hose. Mechanical methods are far more effective.
In the normal concentrations available, usually 6% w/w, it will not attack brass, bronze or stainless steel.

I once calculated the amount needed to remove everything from a virtually blocked pipe. It was many years ago and I estimated the density of the build up to calculate weight from pipe diameter and thickness of calcified material. I can't remember the result but it was a lot of 20% HCl per metre, not just 500mls.

I do use it every 6-8 weeks during the season and holding tank gets an end of season HCl rinse followed by a caustic wash to loosen organic material.

Be cairful if you use any acid to try to clear any hose in place. I blew apart my Henderson Mk 5 pump on my lavac head by pumping Hydrochloric acid through the head.

The best way I found was to remove the hose and beat it on a concrete pathway to brek up any calcium build up

I helped a guy in Spain with the longest most clogged up system I'd ever seen, probably about 7m of hose. I told him we'd need to be exceedingly careful to avoid pressure. Lots of vigorous bubbling each time we introduced small amounts of acid and pumped it into the pipe. We were able to build the volume slowly and eventually cleared it enough to get it working. I'd hate to think what would have happened if he'd just dumped 5-10 litres of 20% HCl I'd given him into the bowl.

It was a long holyday weekend and it did clear it enough to be useable. He'd had the pipes replaced 6 months earlier and couldn't understand why it had blocked again. He was only pumping 1-2 times after use and I explained about 50 pumps would be needed to reach the outlet with his system. No big surprise it blocked.

Fresh water flushing or making a much shorter pipe run were really the only options for him.

I always use about 24 strokes to pump our forward head and it never shows sign of blockage. I changed the aft. head pipe last year when changing the valve and it was completely clear. [smug mode] Not bad after 10 seasons use by 2 people living in the boat for 6 months each year.[smug mode off]

 

[rotrax]

We now catch washing/toothbrushing water in a small bowl in the heads sink. This is used as a 'freshwater' flush by pouring it into the bowl. It is collected until enough is there for thirty pumps.

We are a bit profligate with fresh water as we have big tanks.

Would not, of course, use so much if on a long passage.

White vinegar is put into the bowl upon leaving the vessel and thirty pumps gets it right through the system. The outlet seacock is then turned off, leaving it in place till we return.

I dont expect this very mild acid would clear heavy deposits but from direct experience-over eight years with this vessel- it maintains the system. The joker valve and flap valve are always clear of deposits.

 

[geem]

Hydrochloric acid clears limescale well, which is why it is sold in hardware shops all over Europe. It is good for relatively minor accumulations of scale in the toilet but would require vast volumes to clear the hose. Mechanical methods are far more effective.
In the normal concentrations available, usually 6% w/w, it will not attack brass, bronze or stainless steel.

Our Blakes Lavac was not pumping well a couple of weeks ago. I decided it needed a descale. 1/2 litre of 33% hydrochloric acid into an empty bowl. One pump to move it up to the pump. I then added a litre of white vinegar. Another pump to empty the loo bowl. Now wait. For the next hour the pipework bubbled and gurgled.after that I pumped and the Mrs watched the outlet over the side. A white slurry came out for some time then lots of small bits. Did about 100 pumps and all is good. The toilet pumps fine and performance is restored

 

[michael_w]

Take the hose out and beat it against the seawall to dislodge the lime scale then refit. Simples,

 

[ylop]

It is increasing hard to get domestic hydrochloric acid in the UK and I can only get it mail order or click and collect at commercial cleaning supplier.

Its a few years since I've bought any but your local B&Q or Homebase probably has some - sold as "Brick Acid" or "Brick Cleaner".

This seems to have elevated the problem

Elevate - as in make bigger or worse? or alleviate as in cure?

 

[Daydream believer]

Take the hose out and beat it against the seawall to dislodge the lime scale then refit. Simples,

Not if it goes to the holding tank via just about every other obstacle in the boat behind the most inaccessible panels it is not. I have been thinking of renting it out to the mice as a theme park ride.

 

[geem]

Not if it goes to the holding tank via just about every other obstacle in the boat behind the most inaccessible panels it is not. I have been thinking of renting it out to the mice as a theme park ride.

Otherwise known as poor design. My friend had to cut access hatches in his Grp liner in the loo to remove the blocked pipe. Absolutely crazy

 

[Daydream believer]

Otherwise known as poor design. My friend had to cut access hatches in his Grp liner in the loo to remove the blocked pipe. Absolutely crazy

Of course . But when I bought the boat, my wife really loved the clean lines of the heads compartment. Lots of room & how easy it was to keep spick & span
Did not go too much on the bad language when it blocked in Ostend one year. Got off the boat & went home via Eurostar. Left me with a shower tray full of "efluent"
She plays a lot of golf these days

 

[jwilson]

The traditional bodge is to remove the old hose completely and bash it repeatedly on a hard surface before refitting. The proper fix is a new sanitation grade pipe, and remove joker valve and clean or replace as appropriate. Brick acid cleans the crud in the WC base well, but once you've got a buildup in the long pipe it won't help much.