Buying through a Broker.

[basic]

Any advantage in my using a solicitor to handle the deal when buying through a broker.

 

[RichardS]

I guess it depends upon how much you value your savings.

I wouldn't even consider it for buying a car or boat but then I'm from Yorkshire.

Richard

 

[Tranona]

Not necessary if the broker is in the UK and is a member of the YDSA of the BMI. Check that he has a proper client account set up as a trust and that your deposit goes into that account. If he follows the normal practice of using the recognised contract and providing you with sight of all the original documents before you sign there is (almost) no risk. I say almost just because a determined fraudster will find a way, but a recognised established broker is unlikely to be one of them.

 

[dunedin]

May depend somewhat on the sums entailed - once gets into the hundreds of thousands plus then certainly worth considering

Re Client Accounts, they are certainly something to ask about. But you have very little way of determining (a) if it really is a ring-fenced account that is formally designated as such by the bank and/or (b) if your specific funds are actually in there.
With a solvent and honest broker this is not an issue. If either or both do not apply, very easy for a broker to divert the funds to some other apparently more urgent purpose. Very rarely happens - but it can

However, generally the shorter the window of exposure the better. And buying second hand has a very short exposure compared to buying new. And certainly much more safeguards with a broker than direct sale

 

[PhilS]

Still check the paperwork thoroughly. I bought my first boat through Fox's in Ipswich and didn't get an original VAT invoice. It became a bit of an issue when I sold the boat. I went back to Fox's who remembered the problem although they didn't mention it to me when I bought the boat. I would still have considered buying the boat but would like to have known it didn't have a full history.

 

[prv]

May depend somewhat on the sums entailed - once gets into the hundreds of thousands plus then certainly worth considering

Re Client Accounts, they are certainly something to ask about. But you have very little way of determining (a) if it really is a ring-fenced account that is formally designated as such by the bank and/or (b) if your specific funds are actually in there.
With a solvent and honest broker this is not an issue. If either or both do not apply, very easy for a broker to divert the funds to some other apparently more urgent purpose. Very rarely happens - but it can

But how does employing a solicitor to talk to the broker on your behalf help with any of that?

Seems to me that adding another step to the chain, especially if it's a general-purpose solicitor who knows nothing about boats, increases the risk of problems rather than reducing it.

Pete

 

[theoldsalt]

I also find it very useful to take advantage of a brokers services for preparing the contract and handling the money (using a "ring-fenced" client account) when buying or selling privately. I know it's not essenial but does provide peace of mind and only costs about £200.

 

[Malo37]

My boat is currently for sale. A prospective purchaser (who has not inspected the boat) made an offer which he had been advised by a broker "is the appropriate value for a private sale". The implied assumption that my boat is worth less if sold privately than if sold via a broker is indicative of the arrogance of some brokers. They certainly add to cost but certainly can not add value.

 

[theoldsalt]

My boat is currently for sale. A prospective purchaser (who has not inspected the boat) made an offer which he had been advised by a broker "is the appropriate value for a private sale". The implied assumption that my boat is worth less if sold privately than if sold via a broker is indicative of the arrogance of some brokers. They certainly add to cost but certainly can not add value.

But isn't the reason for buying privately the attraction of a slightly lower price by perhaps up to the broker's fee when the seller does not lose financially; and the advantage of buying though a broker with the security of purchase (title, contract, money) and the slightly higher price for that service.

 

[PeterC]

You are unlikely to be certain the deposit is ring fenced, and its not underwritten in the same way as funds in escrow on a solicitor's client account which is protected by the law society,

The broker is unlikely to ever depart from the "standard" contract, and if he does is even less likely to be qualified to do so,

The broker acts exclusively for the seller, he does not have your interest as the buyer at heart, other than to get the deal done so he receives his commission asap.

 

[theoldsalt]

You are unlikely to be certain the deposit is ring fenced, and its not underwritten in the same way as funds in escrow on a solicitor's client account which is protected by the law society,

The broker is unlikely to ever depart from the "standard" contract, and if he does is even less likely to be qualified to do so,

The broker acts exclusively for the seller, he does not have your interest as the buyer at heart, other than to get the deal done so he receives his commission asap.

You certainly apppear to be biased against brokers - maybe as a result of a bad experience. Although paid by the seller the broker should have the interest of both buyer and seller at heart as without a buyer there can be no sale therefore no commission. Often as a buyer it is our life savings we are "investing" in a boat so unless we have complete confidence in the broker just walk away. The money is more important than the boat. Another boat and perhaps another broker will be along soon. The answer is just to refuse to deal with unprofessional or incompetant brokers. If possible find out who owns the boat and report the broker to the seller saying he has lost a sale due to the actions of the broker. It pays to research the broker you buy through in the same way you research a boat you wish to buy.

 

[adwuk]

You are unlikely to be certain the deposit is ring fenced, and its not underwritten in the same way as funds in escrow on a solicitor's client account which is protected by the law society,
The broker is unlikely to ever depart from the "standard" contract, and if he does is even less likely to be qualified to do so,
The broker acts exclusively for the seller, he does not have your interest as the buyer at heart, other than to get the deal done so he receives his commission asap.

Certainly not my experience - jwilson, of this parish, is an excellent fellow and I would have no hesitation in buying a boat through him again. The problem for him is that he sold me the right boat, and so a further sale is highly unlikely!

edit: I did not (feel the need to) employ a solicitor.

 

[davidej]

They certainly add to cost but certainly can not add value.

A rather jaundiced point of view.

If it were true, they would all go out of business

 

[prv]

Am I the only one who actually read the OP's question?

Reminder: he asked whether it was a good idea for him to employ a solicitor to deal with the seller's broker.

Pete

 

[dunedin]

Am I the only one who actually read the OP's question?

Reminder: he asked whether it was a good idea for him to employ a solicitor to deal with the seller's broker.

Pete

No I read this - hence my reply depends on the sums involved. If I were buying a million pound Oyster or Discovery I probably would. If buying a Westerly Centaur I would not.
But I would join the RYA and read their buying guides and perhaps speak to them if doing a bigger purchase. They have a list of nautical aware solicitors

PS. Actually, based upon other topical posts I might not be buying the million pound Oyster after all

 

[Tranona]

Am I the only one who actually read the OP's question?

Reminder: he asked whether it was a good idea for him to employ a solicitor to deal with the seller's broker.

Pete

Agree. Some people see "broker" in the title of the thread and just use it to air their personal prejudices, complete with misleading "information". Says a lot about them and of no help to the OP, who in this case has had his question answered directly by others.

 

[dom]

I too am perplexed by these knee-jerk anti-broker posts. We have the benefit of two highly respected brokers on here, both of whom have earned a reputation for trustworthiness, competence and a general willingness to help. Even better, they actually sail!

There are of course technical legal aspects of individual transactions (high-value, certain imports, etc) where all parties may benefit from competent legal advice.

However, to try and twist this occasional need into a gratuitous attack on brokers is pretty bad form. Worse, it brings absolutely nothing useful to the table.

 

[theoldsalt]

Any advantage in my using a solicitor to handle the deal when buying through a broker.

It would be intersting to hear from anyone who has used a solicitor when purchasing through a broker and to see if the broker was happy for the solicitor to handle the contract and the money as this method would seem to be very rare/unusual.

 

[ip485]

I think there are some very good points here and the question has been addressed in a round about way.

As with any walk of life there are very good brokers and very bad ones - distinguishing between the two isnt always easy, and as we all know the best tricksters are usually the most convincing.

As far as I am also aware monies held by a broker are not underwritten in the same way as funds held by a solicitor. A broker may well have a ring fenced agreement in place with his bankers, but how does the average punter know, and how do they check. Indeed, if you ask for a copy of the letter (and how many people do), do you know the letter is genuine, or even still current. No, your only guarantee would be to write to the brokers Bank and have them confirm the position to you, which I doubt anyone does. Without those funds being ring fenced, even with the best will in the world if the broker goes bust those funds (your funds) will fall under the control of the Receiver. On the other hand I agree that funds held on a solicitor's client account in Escrow are underwritten by the Law Society so it is highy unlikely those funds would ever be at risk.

I also agree that if you instruct a solicitor he is acting for you alone. His sole responsibility is to do his best to protect your interests.

Obviously it is a matter of proportionality - and I would agree the cost of employing a solicitor needs to be taken into account. The bill will certainly come to many hundreds of pounds.

I used a solicitor for one purchase, but not for another. In the first instance I simply had an uncomfortable feel about the broker, but in the second a very comfortable feeling about the seller. Perhaps for the reasons I mentioned earlier that is exactly the wrong way in whcih to make the decision - but as it happens, that is just the way it was.

However, I learnt a great deal from the solicitor the first time around which left me better able to deal with the second purchase.

I would also say that I feel many brokers are far to "protective" of their cleints. Of course there are too many tyre kickers around, but unfortunatley if you want to sell your boat I think that goes with the territory. I think brokers should be far more willing to allow buyers and sellers to spend time together, be more flexible as to the way in which an agreement is reached, and I find it extraordinary that anyone would be expected to pay a substantial deposit, expected to sign a contract pre-survey, and be told the deposit would not be refundable unless serious defects were found. Personally I would never agree to those terms.

 

[Resolution]

Any advantage in my using a solicitor to handle the deal when buying through a broker.

For a normal transaction with a boat registered and located in the UK of normal value and broker who is a member of the YBDSA, the answer is probably not. However if the sale is likely to involve special terms, and you are not an expert, then probably yes.