Buying Spanish Yacht in Italy - advice please!!

[Jason T]

Hi,
I am looking at buying a 2007 Jeanneau from the original Spanish owner. He has moved to Italy and the boat is now moored there. I am a UK resident and will continue to be so but want to cruise the Med in semi retirement. I plan to cruise the eastern Med and will duck in and out of the EU as my visa allows but I like the ides of a EU VAT paid boat so that we aren't bothered by the 18 month rule and we can leave her ashore if we need to. I have been spooked by the Spanish registration and some horror stories of the Spainish Tax man chasing you but i think that applies to Spanish residents?

1) Am I correct in thinking that as long as the yacht is deregistered from the Spanish registers with proof and I register her as a UK vessel (probably part 1 to avoid complications in Greece) then that is all I need to do or am I missing something? Any advice on what documents I need and proof for the future etc most welcome.

2)I also assume that if I have the original bill of sale to the original owner and then a bill of sale from him to me then that should satisfy EU customs on proving EU VAT paid? I plan to use a copy of the RYA or MCA bill of sale.

3) How do I confirm that there is no mortgage or charges against the yacht?


Many Thanks
Jason

 

[Tranona]

Sound move. The deregistration will be enough to confirm the boat is VAT paid. Not sure why you would want Part 1 - not that it is a bad thing, but expensive to have done from Italy, as Part 3 is equally acceptable. You have probably heard rumours about the Part 3 problems in Greece immediately after B day, but my understanding is that they have now been resolved. Worth checking with the Cruising Association as they were instrumental in sorting it out.

OK to use the RYA paperwork if the sellers agrees, but unless you state otherwise this means the agreement will be under UK law. Difficult or maybe impossible to check if there are unregistered loans against the boat, but I think like the UK "proper" loans have to be registered in Spain. Would think it highly unlikely there would be outstanding loans against a 15 year old boat.

Only my thoughts which might be useful to you

 

[Jason T]

Tranona, many thanks for your reply. I am interested in your comment regarding Part 1 vs Part 3 SSR and its suitability in Greece. SSR would be a much easier option, the main reason for going for part 1 was to try and get an extended visa in Greece, If the Greeks are accepting SSR or it doesn't matter then that seams to be the way to go. I may be confusing the requirements for an extended visa vs. residency where I think you needed part 1? Any feed back on this as well would be appreciated.

 

[JFowler]

We are Part 3, SSR registered, based in Greece. Never had any problem. We renewed our registration recently & were issued a digital certificate, which I printed and laminated- several copies, just in case!
We applied for Greek residence last year & Boat Yard contacts were important, our boat registration document was irrelevant.

 

[Tranona]

Tranona, many thanks for your reply. I am interested in your comment regarding Part 1 vs Part 3 SSR and its suitability in Greece. SSR would be a much easier option, the main reason for going for part 1 was to try and get an extended visa in Greece, If the Greeks are accepting SSR or it doesn't matter then that seams to be the way to go. I may be confusing the requirements for an extended visa vs. residency where I think you needed part 1? Any feed back on this as well would be appreciated.

Don't know what the conditions of an extended visa are, but in theory if you become resident in Greece you are no longer eligible for the SSR, but not sure Greeks care. The issue for SSR with Greece was treating boats that became EU VAT paid by being there on 31/12/2020 as third country boats on the basis that SSR requires resident in the UK. They were conflating state of registry with VAT status and the 2 are not connected. While the Commission has put them right it may not have worked its way down to all Port Police

 

[Jason T]

We are Part 3, SSR registered, based in Greece. Never had any problem. We renewed our registration recently & were issued a digital certificate, which I printed and laminated- several copies, just in case!
We applied for Greek residence last year & Boat Yard contacts were important, our boat registration document was irrelevant.

Many thanks for the information it’s great to get real world feedback

 

[Jason T]

Don't know what the conditions of an extended visa are, but in theory if you become resident in Greece you are no longer eligible for the SSR, but not sure Greeks care. The issue for SSR with Greece was treating boats that became EU VAT paid by being there on 31/12/2020 as third country boats on the basis that SSR requires resident in the UK. They were conflating state of registry with VAT status and the 2 are not connected. While the Commission has put them right it may not have worked its way down to all Port Police

Thanks again, I am tending to go for the SSR as we don’t plan on becoming residents of Greece. However my surveyor has said that for an extra £220 he will add a tonnage survey onto the pre purchase survey ready for Part 1 which is a good part of the Part 1 cost… decisions, decisions

 

[Tranona]

Go for Part 1. That is very reasonable as you will have proof of title which you do not get with Part 3.

 

[Jason T]

Having done a bit more digging I have found the cost of part 1 to be far more reasonable than I thought £153 for 5 years which is much less than I thought and then £73 at each renewal. Yes I agree at that price it seams like the way to go.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Jason - as the guy at the CA sorting the Greeks, I can safely say SSR is now perfectly acceptable in Greece after an initial wag of a Port Police noted that you had to be resident in the UK to have one - so anyone with residency in Greece was questioned for a few days before they saw sence! SSR can be had by anyone "Ordinarily Resident in the UK - that is not defined in UK law but in general terms, if you dont have an address here go Part 1. In general terms Part 1 is the better of the 2 accepted more readily throughout the world.

I was concerned with your VAT proof - you just mention bill of sale. In the UK a Bill of sale does NOT provide evidence of Vat paid. So I dont know what the spanish form is, but I would imagine it involves an ORIGINAL Vat Invoice.....You need the original suppliers Invoice showing the Vat paid. The Greeks are also a bit up their bums about Vat and has any Vat ever been refunded - but a private yachts has little hope of a refund on export. So be careful here - the Greeks scrutinise the invoices - not just UK ones but others and there is always a language barrier as well.

If you are going to be a regular in Greece, Joining the CA would be very useful - as facebook as a source has caused all sorts of complications... it does not cost much and has plenty of side benefits as well.

 

[[3889]]

Hi,
I am looking at buying a 2007 Jeanneau from the original Spanish owner. He has moved to Italy and the boat is now moored there. I am a UK resident and will continue to be so but want to cruise the Med in semi retirement. I plan to cruise the eastern Med and will duck in and out of the EU as my visa allows but I like the ides of a EU VAT paid boat so that we aren't bothered by the 18 month rule and we can leave her ashore if we need to. I have been spooked by the Spanish registration and some horror stories of the Spainish Tax man chasing you but i think that applies to Spanish residents?

1) Am I correct in thinking that as long as the yacht is deregistered from the Spanish registers with proof and I register her as a UK vessel (probably part 1 to avoid complications in Greece) then that is all I need to do or am I missing something? Any advice on what documents I need and proof for the future etc most welcome.

2)I also assume that if I have the original bill of sale to the original owner and then a bill of sale from him to me then that should satisfy EU customs on proving EU VAT paid? I plan to use a copy of the RYA or MCA bill of sale.

3) How do I confirm that there is no mortgage or charges against the yacht?


Many Thanks
Jason

You probably know this but if you don't,
Italian brokers charge the buyer 5% and the seller 5%. I was unpleasantly surprised to discover this when I bought a boat in Italy last year.