Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
I had a feeling that the amount you were spending on a brand new toy would be absolutely fine.
How much you got to spend
Buying New ?
- Thread starter Bigplumbs
- Start date
How much you got to spend
Bowlerhat
Well-Known Member
It’s a classic ‘depends’ job, but I would say it starts with whether it’s exactly the boat you want. If it is and the cash you have available won’t deprive you of doing other things you enjoy (which you then regret not being able to to) then it sits squarely in the ‘life’s too short, go for it’ department. However, as others have said, a new boat ain’t like a new car and things go wrong early on. I’m reminded of a ’weekend maiden voyage‘ in a mate’s Fairline a few years back. At the end of 2 days the snagging list ran to 3 pages. A particularly tricky point was where one of the other guests, having ‘veered a couple of shackles’ in the heads, attempted to flush it away. The heads had other ideas and diverted what had been intended for the black water tank onto his starboard foot. All rather awkward.
For me the answer to the ‘what’s the boat you want?’ question (avoiding the fanciful answers this could conjure) means buying new is out of reach. Second hand - carefully selected and surveyed - has always worked for us.
For me the answer to the ‘what’s the boat you want?’ question (avoiding the fanciful answers this could conjure) means buying new is out of reach. Second hand - carefully selected and surveyed - has always worked for us.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Buy new. Buy often
Portofino
Well-Known Member
That’s the recipe for ending up with a small fortune ……..after starting out with a big fortune .
Apply illustrated here I thought ?
All well maintained no mud larks in river berths some winter in a hanger .
Used prices - same boat ?
Measure twice or trice and cut ( buy )a once .
.Talking quality boats like ^^^ .
Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
A necessity for Sealine, Formula and Beneteau owners if they want to stay ahead of “issues”
BruceK
Well-Known Member
Says a man who changes his boat every few years after burying the evidence of his sins behind a bit of sticky back vinyl!
henryf
Well-Known Member
How can a thread about buying a new £30-40k boat possibly turn into a post about a new boat costing £8 million ? (Post #24 from Portofino)
I'm beginning to remember why I stopped visiting and posting on here.
Somewhat back on track:
Decide what the boat is likely to sell for when you've had your fuss out of it. Offset some of the delta against a lack of expenditure in the early years and reduced likelihood of expenditure after that until you sell compared to a used craft.
Think about whether you will get more enjoyment playing with something in better overall condition than an aging used boat and also consider you will be enjoying all the latest features and benefits.
Then decide whether to buy new or not.
Ultimately it's that delta figure you're spending not the total cost.
What I would say is buy a brand who stands by their product powered by an engine or engines who's manufacturer also stands by their product in the event of premature failure. Without that if you're going to have to shell out your own money two minutes after purchase you might as well stick with a used boat.
Henry
I'm beginning to remember why I stopped visiting and posting on here.
Somewhat back on track:
Decide what the boat is likely to sell for when you've had your fuss out of it. Offset some of the delta against a lack of expenditure in the early years and reduced likelihood of expenditure after that until you sell compared to a used craft.
Think about whether you will get more enjoyment playing with something in better overall condition than an aging used boat and also consider you will be enjoying all the latest features and benefits.
Then decide whether to buy new or not.
Ultimately it's that delta figure you're spending not the total cost.
What I would say is buy a brand who stands by their product powered by an engine or engines who's manufacturer also stands by their product in the event of premature failure. Without that if you're going to have to shell out your own money two minutes after purchase you might as well stick with a used boat.
Henry
oldgit
Well-Known Member
The dilemma.
New or preloved. Who cares, for most not an option.
For long term satisfaction buy what you need not what you think you want.
Am in the mood to buy for no other good reason other than I can. However to improve on my present boat, which annoyingly still does everything required , need to spend 3 times more to achieve precious little in space or pace and from observation some pretty grim construction qualities and appalling engine access.
Nothing in the UK rings any bells but plenty in EU.
Thanks to all who put a neat " Taking Back control " 20% surcharge on importing/exporting boats . .
New or preloved. Who cares, for most not an option.
For long term satisfaction buy what you need not what you think you want.
Am in the mood to buy for no other good reason other than I can. However to improve on my present boat, which annoyingly still does everything required , need to spend 3 times more to achieve precious little in space or pace and from observation some pretty grim construction qualities and appalling engine access.
Nothing in the UK rings any bells but plenty in EU.
Thanks to all who put a neat " Taking Back control " 20% surcharge on importing/exporting boats .
.
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply’s. If this thread has done anything it has given me time to go off the boil and a lot of the urge has gone for that new one. Not sure if that is good or bad but her indoors thinks it is good and she is the one that gets my egg on toast in the morning so if she us happy my egg should be exactly the right softness.
yes also a little bemused about the 8 mill boat
yes also a little bemused about the 8 mill boat
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Illustrates the shocking depo for more or less the same boat(s) .
The €900 version was as low it goes for that modal .
Even the 3 1/2 yr one is under 1/2 price ie lost 50 % .In this case a €4 million “ delta “ for those marmite wings .
Then @ 25 % of new or a shocking 75 % loss Adur .Adur is visually as new unmarked quite remarkable for a 2013 .
@€2M .You have to be love with those wings for sink another €6 M in more / less the same boat buying a new one .
Finally the pick of the crop is the oldest because as I alluded and PYB followed up it’s arguably better gone through construction process and will have lower liabilities in-terms of vast grazing to go wrong or side affects of poor Vac infusion or cored hull damp issues going forwards .In plane Eng New is not necessarily better - got it ?
Not saying the ratio of 1:8 is a standard ratio like Henry’s 50 ftr Prinny , but like cars the more expensive Luxo barges depreciation is wicked .This is because there are fewer folks with pockets deep enough to run and maintain them .= low demand .
None of the 4 boats I illustrated ( live examples ) were poorly maintained sitting rotting on some gawd forsaken mud estuary .
So it’s not conditions that drag the 1:8 ratio so large it just the market .
Where as I bet I could find a few scrappy Priny 50 s in gawd forsaken mud berths in the U.K.
In which case the case for buying new strengthens as the stock available is rubbish , i get that .New starts to become attractive .
But 50 % depreciation or “ delta “ for a under 4 yrs old .
I bet I could find some very nice examples of a 5 yr old P50 in a smart marinas well maintained for a fraction of the new price .
The irony is Henry sells used cars not new ones , yet sings a different tune to boats in terms of new vs old .
Its the ( I assume ) the proceeds of flogging second hand cars that funds the new boat(s) which have the wicked depro .
Oh the irony
“ Do as I say but not as i do “ or is it “don‘t do as I do but do as I say but a used car from me not a new one ? “Something like that .
Btw I was replying to Boubas post “ Buy new buy often “ post #23 which he subsequently placed a like .
Showing him the madness of that if you went down the cereal Pershing 82 route - cooed at boat shows .
Its a forum any idea goes why folks are unreceptive to different views never ceases to amaze ….keep em com lads .
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
Illustrates the shocking depo for more or less the same boat(s) .
The €900 version was as low it goes for that modal .
Even the 3 1/2 yr one is under 1/2 price ie lost 50 % .In this case a €4 million “ delta “ for those marmite wings .
Then @ 25 % of new or a shocking 75 % loss Adur .Adur is visually as new unmarked quite remarkable for a 2013 .
@€2M .You have to be love with those wings for sink another €6 M in more / less the same boat buying a new one .
Finally the pick of the crop is the oldest because as I alluded and PYB followed up it’s arguably better gone through construction process and will have lower liabilities in-terms of vast grazing to go wrong or side affects of poor Vac infusion or cored hull damp issues going forwards .In plane Eng New is not necessarily better - got it ?
Not saying the ratio of 1:8 is a standard ratio like Henry’s 50 ftr Prinny , but like cars the more expensive Luxo barges depreciation is wicked .This is because there are fewer folks with pockets deep enough to run and maintain them .= low demand .
None of the 4 boats I illustrated ( live examples ) were poorly maintained sitting rotting on some gawd forsaken mud estuary .
So it’s not conditions that drag the 1:8 ratio so large it just the market .
Where as I bet I could find a few scrappy Priny 50 s in gawd forsaken mud berths in the U.K.
In which case the case for buying new strengthens as the stock available is rubbish , i get that .New starts to become attractive .
But 50 % depreciation or “ delta “ for a under 4 yrs old .
I bet I could find some very nice examples of a 5 yr old P50 in a smart marinas well maintained for a fraction of the new price .
The irony is Henry sells used cars not new ones , yet sings a different tune to boats in terms of new vs old .
Its the ( I assume ) the proceeds of flogging second hand cars that funds the new boat(s) which have the wicked depro .
Oh the irony
Something like that .
Btw I was replying to Boubas post “ Buy new buy often “ post #23 which he subsequently placed a like .
Showing him the madness of that if you went down the cereal Pershing 82 route - cooed at boat shows .
Its a forum any idea goes why folks are unreceptive to different views never ceases to amaze ….keep em com lads .
Well I suspect it is because most people cant even think of buying a boat costing £8 Million
henryf
Well-Known Member
I initially used the reply function to Portofino’s post #31 but realised it took me into page 7 of the thread once the content had been repeated.
You use a lot of words and cover various points none of which have any relevance to the purchase of a £30-40k new boat.
How many people can afford an £8 million boat? Not many. How many people can afford the upkeep of a £8 million boat? Not many using the 10% rule.
How many people can afford the upkeep on a £30k boat? Quite a few. Hence the second hand market is kind towards used boats of the type being discussed.
New boats go up in price around 4% per year. That means a £30k new boat today will be a £45k new boat in 10 years time. That exposes the second flaw in your argument.
You’re trying to say an £8 million boat will be worth a million pounds in 10 years. But the £1 million pound used boat wasn’t £8 million, it was probably only £4 million.
When you factor that into the vaguely affordable boat market it means you sometimes get a good chunk of your money back. Sometimes nearly all of it. Of course the money is worth less, you can only buy 6 loaves of bread not 10 but in pure numbers you might not do so bad.
In 2007 we bought a brand new Princess 42 flybridge with D6 engines and a generator for £315,000. You tell me what that’s worth today…..
Somewhat more than the claimed £30k of your ramble
I am also very comfortable with the likely numbers on our P50 which actually worked out a better deal buying new than used because as a charter business we could claim the VAT back on a vessel.
As for selling used Porsches. I’m not a main dealer, I have no choice but for a good number of people buying new Porsches the depreciation is very palatable.
New may not be for everyone, thank goodness otherwise there would be no used market and boats would become worthless.
You certainly can’t say buying new is bad.
Henry
You use a lot of words and cover various points none of which have any relevance to the purchase of a £30-40k new boat.
How many people can afford an £8 million boat? Not many. How many people can afford the upkeep of a £8 million boat? Not many using the 10% rule.
How many people can afford the upkeep on a £30k boat? Quite a few. Hence the second hand market is kind towards used boats of the type being discussed.
New boats go up in price around 4% per year. That means a £30k new boat today will be a £45k new boat in 10 years time. That exposes the second flaw in your argument.
You’re trying to say an £8 million boat will be worth a million pounds in 10 years. But the £1 million pound used boat wasn’t £8 million, it was probably only £4 million.
When you factor that into the vaguely affordable boat market it means you sometimes get a good chunk of your money back. Sometimes nearly all of it. Of course the money is worth less, you can only buy 6 loaves of bread not 10 but in pure numbers you might not do so bad.
In 2007 we bought a brand new Princess 42 flybridge with D6 engines and a generator for £315,000. You tell me what that’s worth today…..
Somewhat more than the claimed £30k of your ramble
I am also very comfortable with the likely numbers on our P50 which actually worked out a better deal buying new than used because as a charter business we could claim the VAT back on a vessel.
As for selling used Porsches. I’m not a main dealer, I have no choice but for a good number of people buying new Porsches the depreciation is very palatable.
New may not be for everyone, thank goodness otherwise there would be no used market and boats would become worthless.
You certainly can’t say buying new is bad.
Henry
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oldgit
Well-Known Member
"poorly maintained sitting rotting on some gawd forsaken mud estuary . "
In defence of mud .
Hitting good olde english mud will ensure you come to slow if embarrassing halt.
The worst that can happen is you have to stay below out of sight until the tide*** comes to you rescue , followed by the crawl of shame back to the marina (hopefully arriving in the dark) when your fellow boaters hopefully have all gone home.
Hitting hard foreign rocks is a totally different ie. expensive , kettle of fish.
*** Google will explain this nautical term. It might seem bit complicated for folks in some parts of the world , but stick with it, for most , its far more important than a computor generated financial spreadsheet.
In defence of mud .
Hitting good olde english mud will ensure you come to slow if embarrassing halt.
The worst that can happen is you have to stay below out of sight until the tide*** comes to you rescue , followed by the crawl of shame back to the marina (hopefully arriving in the dark) when your fellow boaters hopefully have all gone home.
Hitting hard foreign rocks is a totally different ie. expensive , kettle of fish.
*** Google will explain this nautical term. It might seem bit complicated for folks in some parts of the world , but stick with it, for most , its far more important than a computor generated financial spreadsheet.
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Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
You are deffo right about Porto using a lot of word
looks good but I think I was mislead or indeed mislead myself into believing that at launch these boats were touted as being in the £25-30K price bracket
looks good but I think I was mislead or indeed mislead myself into believing that at launch these boats were touted as being in the £25-30K price bracket
AllanG
Well-Known Member
Perhaps the £25-30k touted price was just for the boat without an engine? ?
julians
Well-Known Member
the pricelist is here Saxdor-200-pricing-3.0-19.5.2021-customers-v2.pdf (saxdoryachts.com)
A basic boat with 100hp motor is 23500euro + vat + delivery + import duty etc
That'd easily end up being a £35k boat by the time you've put a more suitable motor on it, and added a couple of options (like the side by side seating , some cushions on the front, stereo, etc)
There was one anchored up near me in majorca yesterday, it looked nice.
edit : just been through the pricelist and specced one up to how I would choose it, it came to ~53000 euro inc vat, excluding delivery
A basic boat with 100hp motor is 23500euro + vat + delivery + import duty etc
That'd easily end up being a £35k boat by the time you've put a more suitable motor on it, and added a couple of options (like the side by side seating , some cushions on the front, stereo, etc)
There was one anchored up near me in majorca yesterday, it looked nice.
edit : just been through the pricelist and specced one up to how I would choose it, it came to ~53000 euro inc vat, excluding delivery
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Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
Sort of double the 'advertised/hyped' price
julians
Well-Known Member
Its always been like this, low headline figure of a low spec boat with a small, or even no engine, excluding vat, delivery etc.
Think the 'headline' price for my boat was around 50k, final cost was 125k