Buying new 2 stroke outboard in the UK

[Adios]

Not wishing to commit a crime against Brussels but say hypothetically someone was to be a commercial fisherman / racer how are dealers in new 2 strokes getting proof of future use of an outboard they sell? Do they even care? Anyone been through the process? DM welcome in case you're worried Guy Verhofstadt is watching

Also anyone know what the score is on buying a used 2 stroke made after 2006 which has previously been in commercial use?

 

[Graham376]

The dealer and importer do need to cover their own backsides but, provided you can convince them, are happy to supply. I had to provide trade invoices and make a declaration on letterhead to certify the engine would not be used for leisure purposes and that I would not sell it on for such use. Future sale supposed to be copied to importer. For racing, the engine has to be the main propulsion and they want racing registration no. - whatever that is.

 

[Adios]

The dealer and importer do need to cover their own backsides but, provided you can convince them, are happy to supply. I had to provide trade invoices and make a declaration on letterhead to certify the engine would not be used for leisure purposes and that I would not sell it on for such use. Future sale supposed to be copied to importer. For racing, the engine has to be the main propulsion and they want racing registration no. - whatever that is.

Trade invoices would be a pain. I guess a letterhead from Sole Trader Fishing Co (no pun intended) would be too easy. But then I wonder if they just keep the docs in case they are ever asked or if they are sent to an eagle eyed bureaucrat who loves nothing more than hunting down people using the wrong stroke of engine for illegal pleasure.

 

[Adios]

Perhaps someone could start up a small inflatables racing series which can provide members with a racing registration number for their racing tender boat. In fact that would be a lot of fun into the bargain.

 

[pvb]

There are no doubt ways around the restrictions, but why must you have a 2-stroke outboard? Wouldn't a 4-stroke perhaps be a bit quieter and more pleasant to use?

 

[Adios]

There are no doubt ways around the restrictions, but why must you have a 2-stroke outboard? Wouldn't a 4-stroke perhaps be a bit quieter and more pleasant to use?

No, had plenty of both and I prefer the sound and smell of 2 strokes, i just wish they ran hot enough to burn Castrol R then I'd be right back in my motorbike days. Much lighter weight and ease of transport also a big bonus.

 

[Graham376]

There are no doubt ways around the restrictions, but why must you have a 2-stroke outboard? Wouldn't a 4-stroke perhaps be a bit quieter and more pleasant to use?

For me, there are several reasons. T9.8 is the same weight as Suzuki DF4 (I had a DF6 and loads of problems) and 2 strokes are far easier to strip or service and from my experience, easier to start on first pull. I can see loads of high cost repairs for those who can't DIY when 4 strokes get tired.

 

[Mark-1]

Not wishing to commit a crime against Brussels but say hypothetically someone was to be a commercial fisherman / racer how are dealers in new 2 strokes getting proof of future use of an outboard they sell? Do they even care? Anyone been through the process? DM welcome in case you're worried Guy Verhofstadt is watching

Also anyone know what the score is on buying a used 2 stroke made after 2006 which has previously been in commercial use?

I had a look at this a few months and I don't believe it would be remotely difficult if you were willing to make up your own letter head, and I strongly got the feeling the eBay/Amazon suppliers wouldn't even ask for that.

Also I know parts are in rare enough supply right now that dealers are buying brand new outboards to break for parts. Which raises the possibility of buying an outboard in two halves as spares or similar. (They might forget to unbolt the two halves....)

I'm not even sure exactly what crime you'd be commiting if you did provide a fake company letterhead, I strongly suspect none, and the seller would be in the clear because they'd have you're letter headed letter.

Maybe find a small local OB dealer and informally ask them. No names, no packdrill but I can think of at least one local dealer who I strongly suspect wouldn't be too adverse to selling me a 2 stroke based on a verbal assurance I was a business, or, again they could buy it in and claim they sold it to me as spares.

Again, I've had no first hand experience, these are just my impressions, but this is the internet so sharing evidence free gut feelings is par for the course. ?

Final thought, do you need new? My 5hp Mariner 2T is £1500 new. It's a simple engine. For less than £1500 you could easily strip a second hand engine and replace anything remotely likely to wear in a weekend, and end up with essentially a brand new engine that externally looked old - I regard that as a benefit! (You might need a local engineering firm to press the crank together for you.)

 

[Gary Fox]

No, had plenty of both and I prefer the sound and smell of 2 strokes, i just wish they ran hot enough to burn Castrol R then I'd be right back in my motorbike days. Much lighter weight and ease of transport also a big bonus.

A very small teaspoonfull of castor oil in the petrol tank will take you straight back to Brands Hatch!

 

[Mark-1]

For me, there are several reasons. T9.8 is the same weight as Suzuki DF4 (I had a DF6 and loads of problems) and 2 strokes are far easier to strip or service and from my experience, easier to start on first pull. I can see loads of high cost repairs for those who can't DIY when 4 strokes get tired.

+1

I was looking forward to the day when my 2T blew up so I could get a lovely "bob-bob" sounding 4T. When it happened this winter and I started looking at new 4T engines they were just too heavy to make sense. Instead I rebuilt my 2T and then bought a spare 2T. From the demand for 2T spares and engines I am not alone.

 

[Mark-1]

A very small teaspoonfull of castor oil in the petrol tank will take you straight back to Brands Hatch!

This is the best idea ever. Unless someone comes up with a reason not to, I'm doing it.

 

[Gary Fox]

If I needed a brand new 2-stroke outboard, I also would buy used, and replace any appropriate parts.

Doesn't racing use count as 'leisure'? What kind of fool writes these rules, maybe an EU bureaucrat. (To stay in line with the new forum rules, 'other bureaucracies are available'.)

 

[Ningaloo]

Mainbrayce – Alderney – Channel Islands – Marine Services – Chandlery – Fuel – Rigging – Sales might still sell 2 strokes for non commercial use if you are able to get to Alderney.

 

[Gary Fox]

Mainbrayce – Alderney – Channel Islands – Marine Services – Chandlery – Fuel – Rigging – Sales might still sell 2 strokes for non commercial use if you are able to get to Alderney.

I think they need proof of permanent export. This has come up before in the chat, I bet they get asked daily.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Just wondering if Euro 5 and Euro 6 still applies after Brexit.

I have a couple of Mariner 4hp's . One 4T and one 2T . I downloaded a decibel meter and was surprised that both had around 90 decibels at full throttle in gear.

Power to weight definitely favours the 2T . But low mpg is a big downside for the 2T. Not
necessarily monetary, but storage if it is your main power source.

 

[prv]

I think they need proof of permanent export. This has come up before in the chat, I bet they get asked daily.

Since I don’t live in Alderney, I would indeed be permanently exporting it and so should be able to provide whatever proof they need.

As for buying in the UK, a friend of mine did this a few years ago. The paperwork the dealer demanded for racing use would have been hard to obtain (even though it was an ex racing boat, but not part of a current series). For commercial use they just wanted a purchase order from a VAT-registered company, which fortunately my friend has.

Pete

 

[Mark-1]

I think they need proof of permanent export.

I've no reason to doubt it, but why would they care? I can't imagine sellers outside the UK/EU need to try to guess where an outboard might end up and police it? (For local sales, obvs they might not want to post into the UK/EU.)

 

[Adios]

Final thought, do you need new? My 5hp Mariner 2T is £1500 new. It's a simple engine, you could easily strip a second hand engine and replace anything remotely likely to wear in a weekend, and end up with essentially a brand new engine that externally looked old - I regard that as a benefit! (You might need a local engineering firm to press the crank together for you.)

Its the specific engine I'm after thats the problem. Seems like only Tohatsu sold a high revving 26kg 10hp, a super tuned 8hp unit. Its the max I can carry up slips realistically. Could manage a short distance with 36kg but just know i'll regret it too often. (or would I I might pop into a dealer to try carrying a 5HP 4 stroke) Unfortunately there aren't many of them around, even less with a short shaft. If I find a good one it will likely be over 15 years old and over 1k as well, new starts to look attractive then. Being the max weight I won't be wanting to upgrade any time so its a good investment. I have a little 3.5hp tohatsu 2t which is plenty for inland waters and ideal for portaging with a 3.2m SIB and then a 10hp for estuary/coastal. (I'm loving whipping around new waters in this thing) Silly to get a 8hp of the same weight and they are pretty rare and expensive anyway.

 

[Mark-1]

Its the specific engine I'm after thats the problem. Seems like only Tohatsu sold a high revving 26kg 10hp, a super tuned 8hp unit. Its the max I can carry up slips realistically. Could manage a short distance with 36kg but just know i'll regret it too often. (or would I I might pop into a dealer to try carrying a 5HP 4 stroke) Unfortunately there aren't many of them around, even less with a short shaft. If I find a good one it will likely be over 15 years old and over 1k as well, new starts to look attractive then. Being the max weight I won't be wanting to upgrade any time so its a good investment. I have a little 3.5hp tohatsu 2t which is plenty for inland waters and ideal for portaging with a 3.2m SIB and then a 10hp for estuary/coastal. (I'm loving whipping around new waters in this thing) Silly to get a 8hp of the same weight and they are pretty rare and expensive anyway.

I've no doubt you've considered this already but if the problem is carrying it about rather than fitting/removing then a sack truck solves the problem.

My backup engine is a 3.5 Tohatsu 2T. My main engine is a 5hp Mariner 2T. I strongly suspect that by the end of the season that may be reversed - the 3.5 is a wonderful engine and (from lifting it) appears to be made out of a blend of Helium and Polystyrene. That's far more useful to me than an extra 1.5hp at the top end.

 

[Adios]

I've no doubt you've considered this already but if the problem is carrying it about rather than fitting/removing then a sack truck solves the problem.

I had considered that but not sure I need the extra 5 when 10 is probably enough to get me as fast as I'd want to go in a SIB. 15 would be right to the max recommended for weight and HP, rather stay under the probably optimistic max in something made in china (no offence fellas)

My backup engine is a 3.5 Tohatsu 2T. My main engine is a 5hp Mariner 2T. I strongly suspect that by the end of the season that may be reversed - the 3.5 is a wonderful engine and (from lifting it) appears to be made out of a blend of Helium and Polystyrene. That's far more useful to me than an extra 1.5hp at the top end.

I agree entirely which is why I'm not bothering with something in between.