Buying in Italy

[Whitelighter]

The search for a boat goes on. No details this time, that seems to be the kiss of death.

However, boat is in Italy with an Italian broker. Already broker has said his fee to me is €3,000 (despite everyone telling me this never happens) but that's fine so long as boat + fee is acceptable.

My question is what is the Italian market like. In the uk I would be certain that sellers will be expecting to reduce the price by a certain amount. Is this the same in Italy. If I start say 20% lower will that be seen as normal and part of the game or will it be taken as an insult. Or should I go in with a best offer and be prepared to walk?

 

[mparrish]

I'm part way through a purchase in Italy - off there next week with the surveyor for survey/sea trial. Already had a 3 day tour of Italy looking at a variety of boats - had a good look at 4 different boats (3 on west coast, 1 on east coast), plus saw loads of rubbish !. Happy to share my experiences so far by PM if you want.

 

[Whitelighter]

That would be much appreciated thanks

 

[jfm]

I think Portofino recently got his beautiful itama at half the sticker price, in Italy

 

[Whitelighter]

I think Portofino recently got his beautiful itama at half the sticker price, in Italy

Interesting. Maybe I will pack my nadger kicking shoes

 

[jfm]

Interesting. Maybe I will pack my nadger kicking shoes

Wont be necessary. Flipflops. IIRC Porto rang and said "It's a hassle coming by plane - how much is it really?" and nice broker said something like "35% of sticker price, not a penny less. I'll meet you at airport; black Maybach outside arrivals on the double yellow lines". Porto gestured to Parker and was whisked off to Yeadon Airport immediately. Rest is history

 

[Portofino]

Wont be necessary. Flipflops. IIRC Porto rang and said "It's a hassle coming by plane - how much is it really?" and nice broker said something like "35% of sticker price, not a penny less. I'll meet you at airport; black Maybach outside arrivals on the double yellow lines". Porto gestured to Parker and was whisked off to Yeadon Airport immediately. Rest is history

That's the jist---
I was looking a fairly niche mkt -there's not much like itama,s ( compared to say ,bogo FB,s arround 45 ft -100'sfor sale )
I started a raport by e-mail with sensible Q,s then asked for more intimate pic,d -of the boat folks
The broker said "if you come to Italy to view this boat you can have it for xyz no less" -which was just over 1/2 of sticker price June to end of Sept .
Collected from Naples Airport in a BMW outside arrivals on double yellows taken to town -breakfast on the main prom introduced to his brother and a skipper .
Itook a mate who would not look out of place in England's front rowBTH.
The 5 of use went for a trip to the islands after the skipper and I had all the floor panals up and I had looked under each bunk /engine room bat box etc -then we started the engines .
I did the deal AND negotiated with the broker for loads of stuff -new risers , anchor chain +much more .
I did on hand over day pay the broker a pre agreed ( on the first day ) fee. Yours is about right
Broker took us to a famous Naples restaurant -wined / dined us introduced us a realive of his wife the owner ,
Then BMW back to airport .Next day I wired the deposit 10 %
The broker. ( Nalpes ) seemed to know everybody to do with boats " my friend " or " cousin "
Boat was prepped at Aprea Mare ship yard in Pomeii -combo of the pre arranged stuff in the price and stuff I instructed

We just went along -trusting it all worked out -the defanging /vat /BoS etc

As an idea the passerrell pump packed up in Corsica -broker sent a lad with the part and swapped it on the Del trip .FOC.
More on Itama 42 thread

I think it's down to judging and trusting folks as much as the actual boat on offer With a foreign deal

 

[gjgm]

I suppose the key here, though, in relation to OP's question, is that this broker volunteered an amount. Or is that typical in Naples, maybe?

 

[capsco]

I'm part way through a purchase in Italy - off there next week with the surveyor for survey/sea trial. Already had a 3 day tour of Italy looking at a variety of boats - had a good look at 4 different boats (3 on west coast, 1 on east coast), plus saw loads of rubbish !. Happy to share my experiences so far by PM if you want.

Another effort to make the forum more interesting?

 

[mparrish]

More than happy to share with the forum when the deal is a little further down the line - til then I'll stick to PM thanks.

 

[Whitelighter]

Another effort to make the forum more interesting?

I understand his position. I've missed out on two boats having discussed sometimes even vague details on here.

That's why all I'm saying is I'm looking in Italy. I appreciate the help okay get by pm and once it's all done I'll stick it in here.

 

[rafiki_]

Jez, have you had a word with Adam at Global? He has experience with Italy and other Med countries. Might be worth a telecon?

 

[lanerboy]

jez it seems like you have been boat hunting for ages whats the reason for you not buying one yet, price, condition, location all of the above

 

[Whitelighter]

jez it seems like you have been boat hunting for ages whats the reason for you not buying one yet, price, condition, location all of the above

Trying to find the right thing. Managed it twice, missed out twice. Lots of stuff out there but getting the right mix of boat vs budget is tough.

If I had and extra £50k it would be easy....

 

[jrudge]

It is interesting that the broker was agreeing to things - i.e. not asking the client. Nice way to do business.

 

[oldgit]

UK brokers... please please read this thread and stop trying to shift damp smelly tired olde crape at 1980s
prices.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I bought my current boat in Italy and it was an excellent experience. Even got a 12 month warranty (under Italian consumer regs) but you'll only get that with a dealer selling a boat that he owns rather than a brokerage boat. The Italian boat market, as with most Med markets, is depressed so start with an insulting offer like say 50% off and move from there. I do think that you have to appear interested though and that means getting on a plane and going there. They won't take you seriously if you just make that kind of offer by email

In my case, I found that the seller wouldn't budge beyond a certain price but he suggested that we bridged the gap with some goodies so I got him to thow in a Sat TV system, sound system, new carpets throughout, new bedding and, er, some scatter cushions amongst various things. In your case, you might suggest that the broker chucks some goodies in as a contribution from the double commission he's getting from you and the seller

Lovely time of year to be looking at boats in Naples. Take the missus and spend a few days pottering around the Amalfi coast

 

[BartW]

The Italian boat market, as with most Med markets, is depressed so start with an insulting offer like say 50% off and move from there. I do think that you have to appear interested though and that means getting on a plane and going there. They won't take you seriously if you just make that kind of offer by email

In my case, I found that the seller wouldn't budge beyond a certain price but he suggested that we bridged the gap with some goodies so I got him to thow in a Sat TV system, sound system, new carpets throughout, new bedding and, er, some scatter cushions amongst various things. In your case, you might suggest that the broker chucks some goodies in as a contribution from the double commission he's getting from you and the seller

Lovely time of year to be looking at boats in Naples. Take the missus and spend a few days pottering around the Amalfi coast

can confirm everything from Mikes post,
you can drop a low offer, but show interest and get in to negociation, (thats what Italians like ;-) )
and you have to be prepared to "give in" something during that negociation,

the administration part of a sale is all very organised, nothing to worry, if the broker is a good / normal one (just like in UK I think)

coincidently today I received a nice UPS package of goodies (local speciality's) from my favourite Captain/friend living in Maiori / Amalfi coast,
I like to deal with Italians, and would love to visit the area again ;-)

 

[MapisM]

Even got a 12 month warranty (under Italian consumer regs) but you'll only get that with a dealer selling a boat that he owns rather than a brokerage boat.

Just for sake of accuracy, the regulation you are referring to applies to any boat sold by a company, as opposed to a private individual.
I'm saying this because if WL (or anyone else) would find that the boat is actually owned by a company, he could (regardless of the broker/dealer role) ask for a 12 months warranty.
Now, having said that, the difference between buying from a company like Sanlorenzo and buying from some Mickey Mouse LLP, established by a private individual specifically for purchasing a boat, in practice (as opposed to in theory) is like day and night.
While I would completely trust the first to comply with their duties, as they did with your boat, I wouldn't hold my breath with the latter...

Back to the main topic, maybe starting at 50% implies a significant risk of not being considered a serious buyer - assuming that the asking price is already realistic. Otoh, these days I don't think anyone on this planet would consider an offer lower by 20% as an insult.
Probably, I'd rather start the negotiation somewhere in between, but that's a sweeping generalization anyhow.
What I'd definitely try to get before making any offer is the broker feeling about the specific situation of the boat and of her owner.

All the best to WL for his search, and feel free to get in touch for any IT-specific doubts, even if just in translating anything.

 

[capsco]

I am currently finalising a deal at 10%off asking price, but that was due to a very reasonable asking price in the first place.