Buying & importing from USA - how hard is it?

Robin said:
Our new tous Beneteau Oceanis 36CC was made in France and shipped to the usa for the previous owner. Our marine surveyor pointed out that we could sell it on for a really good price in Europe as it had EU RCD certification, he has a sort of sideline job finding US boats for Europeans and shipping them over as deck cargo. So it is possible. I reckon our Benny was bought for about 50% of what it would have cost to buy in the UK although we did negotiate the price down very hard as we were cash buyers in a slack market.

WHEN WE first bought over here (before we moved here from the UK) we found a broker in Virginia that had shipped quite a few boats over the pond for variousEU buyers, often sight unseen by the buyers, bought just on his say so that the boat was good value... So it can be done.

There is also a forumite here who has bought and who sailed back two boats from the USA,
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Those are examples of where it might be worthwhile. You have to look at each individual situation. Where it is an EU origin boat with a CE mark or can easily get one and it is amodel that is in demand then many of the barriers are removed. So the deciding factor is the price differential between the two different markets. This varies according to the exchange rates and shipping costs. So at the moment a $45k boat end up at close to £50k landed including shipping and VAT. Sometimes the differentials make it worthwhile sometimes not. So favorable exchange rates low shipping costs, surplus ofroduct in one market shortage in another and conditions are right for cross border movements. Don't think that is broadly the cse at the moment. You know, Robin having sold your letter boat to France how it works. In 2008-11 the trade was UK to Europe. 10 years previously it was the other way round. Imbalances that cause this are always temporary as market forces sqeeze out the imbalance.

Sailing a boat back is different again. Not many people are in a position to give up the amount of time and effort to source a boat, get it ready and sail it back. Even less attractive now with the depressed market if the objective is to sell at a profit.

The number of US sourced boats in the UK is tiny which is probably why there is so little hard information about how much the theoretical barriers really are in practice. The RYA has closed down its certification service because of lack of demand which might be one indicator of a low level of activity.
 
if as an eu national, you have a yacht which is neither CE-compliant or CE-exempt and place it into use within EU waters, then it is not regarded as being 'fit for purpose' by virtue of its non-compliance.

all well and good, especially as the directive is not actively policed in the UK (unlike other EU nations).

now... you have an accident whilst out sailing and someone is injured or at worst, killed. your insurer begins investigating and discovers that in the eyes of the eu law-makers, the yacht was not fit for purpose....

just a possible scenario (and one which i believe has yet to go to law).... but one which would weigh heavily on my mind if i were about to jump into taking on such a project.
 
Pre-RCD there used to be the occasional UK sailor (usually single) who would make a few ££££s doing a UK-US delivery as paid crew, then buying a cheap tired boat in Florida, spending a few weeks aboard sorting it out and cruising round the Keys, then bring it back to the UK via the Azores where he paid VAT based on the original and still recent low US$ price. Sell it here and move on. The RCD is a big downer for this.
 
jwilson said:
Pre-RCD there used to be the occasional UK sailor (usually single) who would make a few ££££s doing a UK-US delivery as paid crew, then buying a cheap tired boat in Florida, spending a few weeks aboard sorting it out and cruising round the Keys, then bring it back to the UK via the Azores where he paid VAT based on the original and still recent low US$ price. Sell it here and move on. The RCD is a big downer for this.
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A cynic might suggest that the RCD is less about ensuring a common ground regarding safety and environmental factors, and perhaps more about placing restrictions on trade outside of the EU. It certainly appears to do a very good job of dissuading buyers from spending their money out of the EU!
 
jwilson said:
Pre-RCD there used to be the occasional UK sailor (usually single) who would make a few ££££s doing a UK-US delivery as paid crew, then buying a cheap tired boat in Florida, spending a few weeks aboard sorting it out and cruising round the Keys, then bring it back to the UK via the Azores where he paid VAT based on the original and still recent low US$ price. Sell it here and move on. The RCD is a big downer for this.
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Don't they charge it on perceived value, not some spurious low invoice/bill of sale?
 
alexg said:
now... you have an accident whilst out sailing and someone is injured or at worst, killed. your insurer begins investigating and discovers that in the eyes of the eu law-makers, the yacht was not fit for purpose....
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There is no known situation in which someone doesn't worry about insurance being invalid. I prefer to hope that insurers would be more concerned about the condition of the craft when whatever-it-is happens tan about its specification on one particular day in the past.
 
alant said:
Don't they charge it on perceived value, not some spurious low invoice/bill of sale?
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The Azores is well known as a good place to pay VAT, and on a slightly messy boat just in from a long passage, a good place to get a low valuation, particularly if supported by a genuine recent US$ purchase invoice.
 
alant said:
Don't they charge it on perceived value, not some spurious low invoice/bill of sale?
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Difficult to value a boat, so if the invoice is recent that is taken as market value. However the rules allow a different valuation. For example if you had owned the boat for some time you could argue that depreciation should be taken into account. This is what TC did for his Westernman. On the other hand if you had spent a lot of money on the boat after purchase customs could argue enhancement and assign a higher value. There are no hard and fast rules and different states use different methods. Croatia for example used values from a German database in their calculations.

In the situations discussed here the purchase cost in the US would probably be the most advantageous but also sailing over is better as you don't have to pay VAT on shipping costs.
 
i had heard about the 'azores dodge'. if you are within a certain timescale - i think - you pay VAT on the recent purchase price of the boat. if you get to the UK, you pay VAT on the value HMRC assign to the boat which will be higher based on UK prices. at least that was what i was told by a mate who was quite happy to sail a boat back home
 
I wonder how HMRC decide on value - given the first hand angst displayed on the 'depressed market' thread.

However, I doubt that their people follow YBW or e-Bay.
 
chinita said:
I wonder how HMRC decide on value - given the first hand angst displayed on the 'depressed market' thread.

However, I doubt that their people follow YBW or e-Bay.
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In the absence of a recent documented transaction establishing a market price you present your evidence of value using such data as transaction prices of similar yachts, valuations by professionals etc. You could of course leave it to the discretion of customs but guess they know even less about values than you. So bung a few bob to a well qualified broker or surveyor and you should get it accepted. Provided it looks reasonable of course.
 
Well I have found TC's article in Yachting Monthly. One of the boats I like the look of had a brand new Yanmar diesel which might be compliant. That would take care of the engine part. As for the electronics, they would all have to be either compatible or binned....

Di
 
A new windvane fitted in the States, is now a used windvane when it comes to valuation for importation upon crossing the pond...
Which is as well because a cheap (sorry, inexpensive) US boat may well need fettling before heading out..

Conversely, because we are all so busy working to pay our UK marina berths and vat on stuff, we don't have the time- or taste for adventure- to sail off and fit a new engine in A N Other place eh?
 
It's possible to import a boat into the UK from the USA without paying VAT provided you comply with the following;

A. The boat is your home.
B. You do not own any other home in the UK.
C. the boat has been your home in a non EU country for a minimum of six months.

I know this for a fact because a friend did it with a very nice yacht and I have thought about doing the same thing. Not sure about RCD which was thought up by the French to protect their boat building industry but next time I talk to Pete I will ask him what he did about that.
 
basic said:
It's possible to import a boat into the UK from the USA without paying VAT provided you comply with the following;

A. The boat is your home.
B. You do not own any other home in the UK.
C. the boat has been your home in a non EU country for a minimum of six months.

I know this for a fact because a friend did it with a very nice yacht and I have thought about doing the same thing. Not sure about RCD which was thought up by the French to protect their boat building industry but next time I talk to Pete I will ask him what he did about that.
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That is not what the rules say. Read HMRC VAT Notice No8. It is nothing to do with whether you live on the boat. The exemption is dependent on your resident status. That is you are non resident and intend taking up residence. It may well be that you live on the boat and that you do not own a house in the UK, but that is not the basis for the exemption. You have to meet the requirements for being non resident.
 
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