Buying & importing from USA - how hard is it?

[WestWittering]

Having a browse around t'internet, there are a lot of good used boats in the US offered at a very reasonable price. Plenty of Hunters for example in great nick. Aside from the 20% VAT to be added to the price, is there import duty too? How difficult would it be to organise a crew to bring one back? A friend of a friend has brought back motor boats in the past, kept them a year and had some fun then sold them on for a small profit. I would be looking for a keeper & a sailing boat not a stinkpot.... What are the downsides, if any and has anyone done something similar?

Di

 

[AndrewfromFal]

You may also have to do some work to ensure they are compliant with the EU Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) if you're importing from America. Depending on the type of boat and it's condition, bringing it up to RCD compliance can be somewhat onerous, not to mention tedious; so it's best to check if your desired boat is already compliant as this will impact on the overall cost of importation.

Tom Cunliffe wrote an article about the whole process for Yachting World a while back, as he imported a Mason 44, can't remember when exactly it was published.

 

[prv]

As a matter of interest, is it any less onerous to certify a typical yacht as RCD category D ("garden ponds and large puddles") even though it's demonstrably capable of crossing the Atlantic? As I understand it, nobody in the UK really cares what RCD category a private boat falls into, just that it's been categorised. If the requirements for Cat D are trivial, then why not choose that?

Pete

 

[JumbleDuck]

As a matter of interest, is it any less onerous to certify a typical yacht as RCD category D ("garden ponds and large puddles") even though it's demonstrably capable of crossing the Atlantic? As I understand it, nobody in the UK really cares what RCD category a private boat falls into, just that it's been categorised.

Who actually cares even that it has been categorised? In theory it's Trading Standards, I think, but do they actually ever check?

 

[Blueboatman]

Dont! Until at least you can value judge where on the quality scale a used Hunter lies, ( and I have sailed a few, and owned a US sailing boat), visit Google for the many times this very question comes up , and indeed visit by phone or t'internet Customs n Excise for specific realtime figures and interpretation ( IMO)

 

[Stork_III]

As a matter of interest, is it any less onerous to certify a typical yacht as RCD category D ("garden ponds and large puddles") even though it's demonstrably capable of crossing the Atlantic? As I understand it, nobody in the UK really cares what RCD category a private boat falls into, just that it's been categorised. If the requirements for Cat D are trivial, then why not choose that?

Pete

I think the engine still has to be EU emissions compliant. Could means new engine required.

 

[Tranona]

Who actually cares even that it has been categorised? In theory it's Trading Standards, I think, but do they actually ever check?

If you import a boat legally it will be checked as Trading Standards will check it when you clear customs (paying your VAT) and issue a notice requiring you to comply. The responsibility is with the importer.

 

[Tranona]

Having a browse around t'internet, there are a lot of good used boats in the US offered at a very reasonable price. Plenty of Hunters for example in great nick. Aside from the 20% VAT to be added to the price, is there import duty too? How difficult would it be to organise a crew to bring one back? A friend of a friend has brought back motor boats in the past, kept them a year and had some fun then sold them on for a small profit. I would be looking for a keeper & a sailing boat not a stinkpot.... What are the downsides, if any and has anyone done something similar?

Di

Generally speaking, no it is not viable, but there can be boats worth considering. There are two barriers, firstly the costs of shipping and importing. shipping costs alone, depending on where the boat is located and the size is likely to be a minimum of £8k plus charges such as making a cradle, agents charges, transport to docks and clearance this end. On some boats there may be duty, but that is small plus VAT at 20% on the landed cost (that is the price you paid plus shipping costs). You can of course sail the boat back, reducing the shipping costs, but unlikely that many domestic US boats will be capable of doing it without considerable expenditure on extra gear.

The second issue is getting the boat CE marked to legally import it. Two sides to this. The design needs to be shown to comply with the requirements of the category (probably A) and the equipment must also meet the requirement, and in particular the engine needs to have a CE mark meeting EU requirements on emissions, noise etc. If it is a boat that is also sold in the EU (as many of the sports cruisers you mention are) this is not too onerous as the design data is available and it is clear what equipment needs changing. However for a US built boat, or one built elsewhere for sale in the US you many well need to do a lot of work to meet the requirements, particularly if it is an older boat. It is quite easy to rack up a bill of £8-10k on something like a 36' sailboat to gain a post construction certificate. You could of course take Jumble Duck's view that nobody cares, but not complying is an offence and you will also find when you come to sell, if it is a "valuable" boat potential buyers will be very suspicious of an imported boat that does not have the correct paperwork.

I think you can answer your own question by looking around you and trying to spot a US built boat here. Very hard to find, and those that are here have mostly been here since before 1998 (when the RCD came in) or have come in as personal chattels with people taking up residence here. Such boats don't come on the market very often, but you usually find they are valued much lower than comparable European boats which in part reflects their rarity and in part the difficulties of keeping an older boat going where spares and replacements are not easy to find. Think it is also fair to say that with some exceptions, few US built boats are better than European equivalents, although there are of course some types that are popular there and not here and which may appeal to some people.

 

[JumbleDuck]

You could of course take Jumble Duck's view that nobody cares, but not complying is an offence and you will also find when you come to sell, if it is a "valuable" boat potential buyers will be very suspicious of an imported boat that does not have the correct paperwork..

It's not so much that I think nobody cares, just that I wonder who does. Do Trading Standards actually check, or is this something they could do but occasionally/sometimes/regularly/often/invariably don't? Is a brand new boat which arrives on top of a ship a Southampton treated any different from a secondhand boat which sails into Pittenweem from Norway?

I wonder, too, about the buyers of secondhand boats who worry about CE marking. I'm quite happy to believe they exist, but since there is no obligation to maintain a boat in CE condition (you could perfectly legitimately refit an original non-CE engine ten minutes after getting the certificate) I'm not sure why people care. Perhaps they just like certificates, and if enough people do that would certainly make getting a certificate worth considering.

Note that I'm not doubting the law, just wondering how enforced it is in reality.

 

[WestWittering]

Hmmm, much food for thought so perhaps not the absolute bargain that many seem to be. I had estimated that when I buy my next boat I would then spend around £10,000 to get it the way I want it, so doing that to meet the RCD would not be to onerous, but I am not much good as a hoop-jumper

Having said that, is it much more difficult than importing a US built car? There are quite a few businesses doing that & taking care of registration etc.....

Di

 

[TQA]

Boats are certainly cheaper and there are some real bargain Moodies and Westerlies and other British built boats on offer out in the USA.

The import restrictions may be less onerous if you live on board the boat for a while or at least own it for a while. Check with the RYA for details.

 

[Tranona]

It's not so much that I think nobody cares, just that I wonder who does. Do Trading Standards actually check, or is this something they could do but occasionally/sometimes/regularly/often/invariably don't? Is a brand new boat which arrives on top of a ship a Southampton treated any different from a secondhand boat which sails into Pittenweem from Norway?

I wonder, too, about the buyers of secondhand boats who worry about CE marking. I'm quite happy to believe they exist, but since there is no obligation to maintain a boat in CE condition (you could perfectly legitimately refit an original non-CE engine ten minutes after getting the certificate) I'm not sure why people care. Perhaps they just like certificates, and if enough people do that would certainly make getting a certificate worth considering.

Note that I'm not doubting the law, just wondering how enforced it is in reality.

Does not matter where you land you have to contact customs to pay VAT (and duty) and they notify Trading Standards and you submit your Post Construction certificate. In reality, sensible people sort all this out beforehand and use a surveyor or somebody like CE Proof (or in the past the RYA) to do the paperwork for them. Of course there are always people who choose to ignore the correct process and potentially suffer the consequences.

As to whether people are bothered about it buying secondhand, ask yourself, if you were buying £50k worth of privately imported boat would you not ask the questions? Don't base your view on what you would do if the boat were clearly an "EU" boat as it was either pre RCD or it would not have been sold without a CE mark in the first place. So it is not a question that arises UNLESS the boat is privately imported. Given the small number of privately imported boats on the market it is also therefore a question that is not asked often by anybody!

 

[Tranona]

Boats are certainly cheaper and there are some real bargain Moodies and Westerlies and other British built boats on offer out in the USA.

The import restrictions may be less onerous if you live on board the boat for a while or at least own it for a while. Check with the RYA for details.

That is a bit too simplistic. It is correct that boats that were manufactured in the EEA are exempt from the RCD, and boats that were in the EEA in 1998 but not built there are also potentially exempt, even if they are subsequently taken out. The Moodys and Westerlys you mention are often very cheap, but that reflects two things. First the market in the US for 30+ year old British boats is almost non existent, second, as a consequence they are often in poor condition. The value of these boats has tumbled in the UK as well, so by the time you have paid shipping and VAT they are not worth buying to use in the EU. This may not apply to all European boats, and obviously the higher the value in the EU the more attractive they might be.

Your second point is wide of the mark. It is irrelevant (almost) how long you have owned the boat, or whether you live on it. What determines whether you are eligible to import taking advantage of reliefs or exemptions depends solely on your status, not the boat. The reliefs and exemptions are potentially available IF you are currently non resident in the EU and are taking up residence here. You may then (subject to some conditions) bring in your boat as personal chattels. The number of people this applies to is inevitably very small. Such people still have to pay shipping or sail the boat in themselves.

 

[obmij]

The biggest problem is the faffing around.

You can spend enough time and money chasing a bargain at home - and then no matter how good she looks online, you'll never really know until you see the boat in person. Days off work for viewings (perhaps multiple viewings), fuel, accommodation and if you find the right boat then time in a yard far from home preparing her for sea, or the hassle and cost of transport.

Sometimes best to find a boat close to home you like and negotiate..

I think the exception is, if the buying process itself will be an adventure i.e if you're retired and willing to put the time in, or young and fortunate enough to have the funds, but not responsibility.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Does not matter where you land you have to contact customs to pay VAT (and duty) and they notify Trading Standards and you submit your Post Construction certificate.

I'm not trying to be contentious here, but I would like to know how proactive Trading Standards are about this. If one ignoes them, do they come hunting?

As to whether people are bothered about it buying secondhand, ask yourself, if you were buying £50k worth of privately imported boat would you not ask the questions?

No, I don't think so. I'd be concerned with the condition of the boat now, not the condition some time in the past.

 

[GrahamM376]

I'm certain it would be very easy and highly unlikely to be caught if someone found a used boat outside the EC, registered it on Part 3 and sailed it in. I've met an EC citizen (not UK) who has done just that, his flag state has similar lax registration conditions to ours. However, as pointed out above, it would be an offence, possible confiscation for illegal import? and, I'm sure there would be problems if later placed on the market for sale.

 

[jwilson]

If you import a boat legally it will be checked as Trading Standards will check it when you clear customs (paying your VAT) and issue a notice requiring you to comply. The responsibility is with the importer.

I'd be interested to know if this actually happens ..... My phone calls a few years ago to Trading Standards revealed a total lack of knowledge of what the RCD was. I was investigating yacht import costs/logistics briefly, for someone else, based on a Florida purchase, VAT in Azores, then UK scenario.

I am not suggesting anyone import without at least getting Cat D sheltered water certification, totally legal to do this even for a boat that has just crossed the Atlantic.

 

[EugeneR]

Does not matter where you land you have to contact customs to pay VAT (and duty) and they notify Trading Standards and you submit your Post Construction certificate. In reality, sensible people sort all this out beforehand and use a surveyor or somebody like CE Proof (or in the past the RYA) to do the paperwork for them!

I can only assume this is a new thing, since it did not happen for any of the boats I imported. Note that there is no need for CE certification until you either put the boat into use or onto the market. You legally have as much time as you want to do any modifications here in the UK and then get it certified. Unless Trading Standards have a way of finding out where your boat is and what you are doing with it, they cannot require you to submit anything.

To be clear, I am not saying one should not do it - one must do it. No broker would touch a non-CE boat. Also, do the French not require the right category for the water you are sailing in, or is that only for French registered boats? So, it gets checked but not by Trading Standards as far as I can see.

 

[EugeneR]

I think the engine still has to be EU emissions compliant. Could means new engine required.

Hypothetically, one could disconnect the engine and self certify boat as cat D without engine, and reconnect it afterwards?

You might still fall foul of the law with respect to the non CE engine, I suspect, but the boat would be CE certified.

 

[Robin]

Having a browse around t'internet, there are a lot of good used boats in the US offered at a very reasonable price. Plenty of Hunters for example in great nick. Aside from the 20% VAT to be added to the price, is there import duty too? How difficult would it be to organise a crew to bring one back? A friend of a friend has brought back motor boats in the past, kept them a year and had some fun then sold them on for a small profit. I would be looking for a keeper & a sailing boat not a stinkpot.... What are the downsides, if any and has anyone done something similar?

Di

Our new tous Beneteau Oceanis 36CC was made in France and shipped to the usa for the previous owner. Our marine surveyor pointed out that we could sell it on for a really good price in Europe as it had EU RCD certification, he has a sort of sideline job finding US boats for Europeans and shipping them over as deck cargo. So it is possible. I reckon our Benny was bought for about 50% of what it would have cost to buy in the UK although we did negotiate the price down very hard as we were cash buyers in a slack market.

WHEN WE first bought over here (before we moved here from the UK) we found a broker in Virginia that had shipped quite a few boats over the pond for variousEU buyers, often sight unseen by the buyers, bought just on his say so that the boat was good value... So it can be done.

There is also a forumite here who has bought and who sailed back two boats from the USA, his name is Brian but sadly I forget his forum name, a very nice guy who gave us some USA and Bahamas charts and pilots from his last USA acquisition as he knew we would find them very useful as we were moving here to live on board in Florida. WE no longer live on our 47ft trawler mobo as I had a stroke but we moved ashore after my recovery, downsized a bit to 36ft and went back to the light side under sail again. During our search fo a sailboat we looked at a Westerly Sealord we could have bought for maybe $45000, it needed the decks repainted but was otherwise nice.