Buying boat with broken engine (Perkins 100 series 103.09)

[Oban_Sailor]

Hi,
I'm looking at a boat with a broken engine (a Perkins 100 series 103.09), the seller says the piston rings are gone.

Any ideas for a rough cost to get an engine like this wokring again? GuessI'd need to pay someone for a rebuild.

Many thanks,
John

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Labour will be the biggest expense. But it's probably worth doing as these engines were a marine engine based on a Japanese industrial engine with a good reputation. Went on to be a Volvo with a change of paint colour. In the marine world yours is a Perkins Perama M30 (iirc).

But the parts are availble from Parts-4-engines.

 

[Jim@sea]

If I was buying a boat with a faulty Perkins Engine I would try and find an Agricultural (Farm) Mechanic as Perkins are the engine fitted in Tractors. I believe that Perkins have wet liners so they with new pistons can be lifted out and pressed in whilst a tractor is at a farm.
Find a local Massey Ferguson dealer near you and ask them if they have Mobile Mechanics. Certainly cheaper than a Marina Based Mechanic.

 

[Tranona]

Welcome

Having just replaced a similar Perkins engine I would suggest it is probably uneconomic unless you have the skills to do it yourself. The estimate I had for removing the engine, stripping it down to inspect for wear, re-assemble and install was £2500 plus any parts. The engine is at least 20 years old and inevitably you will find other things need replacing.

Options are to replace with a new Volvo D1 30 which is virtually direct replacement, find a good used Perkins Perama or a Volvo 2030 (essentially the same) or as some have done find a Perkins industrial base engine and re-use your marinising bits if they are OK.

Suggest you talk to these two companies westendmarinebatleyltd.co.uk www.marineenterprisesltd.co.uk both of whom deal in used engines, and the former also often has suitable new base engines.

However if you are paying somebody to do the work then it is best to engage them to consider the options rather than buy an engine and look for somebody to fit it. Just to give you an idea of costs based on what I paid (I went for a new Beta in the end), the basic remove and install labour was £1500, extra "bits" for the installation (exhaust stern gear parts, electrics, fuel systems etc) £500+ . A good used engine ready to install around £3k and new £7k.

So rebuild if possible £4k, used engine of the same type or converted new base unit if feasible £5k, new engine £9k. Which way you go depends on the type and value of the boat - you won't increase the value by the amoint you spend, but depending on the boat and the price you pay for it the overall cost may be worth it in the longer term.

 

[Tranona]

If I was buying a boat with a faulty Perkins Engine I would try and find an Agricultural (Farm) Mechanic as Perkins are the engine fitted in Tractors. I believe that Perkins have wet liners so they with new pistons can be lifted out and pressed in whilst a tractor is at a farm.
Find a local Massey Ferguson dealer near you and ask them if they have Mobile Mechanics. Certainly cheaper than a Marina Based Mechanic.

This is a Japanese made small industrial engines that does not have wet liners, nor AFAIK is it used in MF tractors.

 

[Bobc]

If the piston rings are worn to the point where the engine won't run, then you have to assume that the bores are worn (so will need a rebore and oversized pistons/rings, that the crank will need honing and new bearing shells fitted, and all the seals replaced. If you can't do this yourself, it will be cheaper to fit a new engine. £5k.

 

[Tranona]

If the piston rings are worn to the point where the engine won't run, then you have to assume that the bores are worn (so will need a rebore and oversized pistons/rings, that the crank will need honing and new bearing shells fitted, and all the seals replaced. If you can't do this yourself, it will be cheaper to fit a new engine. £5k.

Afraid your £5k is way out of date. A new 30hp is now around £7k for all makes. Mine was £6700 in April and the prices went up in December. See post#4 for more realistic options based on my experience in 2022 of going through the same process.

 

[Bodach na mara]

If the piston rings are worn to the point where the engine won't run, then you have to assume that the bores are worn (so will need a rebore and oversized pistons/rings, that the crank will need honing and new bearing shells fitted, and all the seals replaced. If you can't do this yourself, it will be cheaper to fit a new engine. £5k.

The new engine may cost £5k but by the time it is fitted the cost may be £10k. That was my experience replacing a sick VP2003 with a Beta 35.

I used to recondition Morris Minor engines myself. At the time I lived in a flat with a student engineer and we repaired all sorts of engines and gearboxes working on the kitchen table in time- honoured fashion. Working on a boat engine is similar BUT removing them is usually a b*****d and my wife objects to them being brought into the house.

 

[WoodyP]

If I was buying a boat with a faulty Perkins Engine I would try and find an Agricultural (Farm) Mechanic as Perkins are the engine fitted in Tractors. I believe that Perkins have wet liners so they with new pistons can be lifted out and pressed in whilst a tractor is at a farm.
Find a local Massey Ferguson dealer near you and ask them if they have Mobile Mechanics. Certainly cheaper than a Marina Based Mechanic.

I had Ben Burgess who are main dealers do wet liners on a little 3 cylinder John Deere. Complete engine overhaul cost me £3000.00, lt would have been dearer but it was a project for the apprentices. I think most tractor mechanics are nearly as dear as marine mechanics, and usually you can walk round a tractor engine rather than standing on your head.

 

[Bobc]

Afraid your £5k is way out of date. A new 30hp is now around £7k for all makes. Mine was £6700 in April and the prices went up in December. See post#4 for more realistic options based on my experience in 2022 of going through the same process.

All depends what you buy, who from, and whether you fit it yourself.

 

[Bobc]

So, to the OP, I guess what you're really getting as feedback here, is that you should be looking to get the boat cheap. Not £10k off, because with a new engine, the boat will be worth more, but I guess it has to be a bit chunk of it to make it worth buying.

 

[Oban_Sailor]

Hi @Bobc , @WoodyP , @Bodach na mara , @Tranona , @Jim@sea , @Motor_Sailor , thanks so much for your helpful answers! I think you have all helped me avoid an expensive mistake

 

[Tranona]

All depends what you buy, who from, and whether you fit it yourself.

That is true - but you won't get a new 30hp engine , even a bobtail without gearbox for £5k with the possible exception of the Perkins base units if you can fit the marinising parts off the old engine.

 

[sailoppopotamus]

Hi @Bobc , @WoodyP , @Bodach na mara , @Tranona , @Jim@sea , @Motor_Sailor , thanks so much for your helpful answers! I think you have all helped me avoid an expensive mistake

Personally, I wouldn't write the boat off immediately but use this as leverage to get a better price on it. There won' be much demand for a boat with a broken engine. Remember, it's probably not just the rings, despite what the seller might say -- once you start digging into the engine all sorts of other issues will manifest themselves.

I have no idea what boat you're looking to buy, what it costs and how much money you have, but if you can haggle the seller down by 60-70% of the cost of a new engine, then I'd buy the boat and put a new engine in it. You then have all the perks of a reliable new engine and a much better chance of being able to sell the boat when the time comes.

 

[WoodyP]

Just to add, my engine rebuild was at 5000 hours and could have been avoided if someone had used the specified JD antifreeze. An expensive example of cost cutting.
On the boat I replaced a Seapanther that needed a rebuild and a new gear box, which was a very expensive lesson but gave a lot of peace of mind.

 

[Bobc]

That is true - but you won't get a new 30hp engine , even a bobtail without gearbox for £5k with the possible exception of the Perkins base units if you can fit the marinising parts off the old engine.

Wow, they have gone up then. When I re-powered in 2019, my Beta 50 was about 6.5k complete with gearbox.

 

[38mess]

Just out of interest, how does the owner know if the rings have gone? Is the engine in bits. It should still start even with worn rings, unless it's been seized.

 

[Beneteau381]

Just out of interest, how does the owner know if the rings have gone? Is the engine in bits. It should still start even with worn rings, unless it's been seized.

My thoughts as well, how does he know piston rings are no good?

 

[Tranona]

Wow, they have gone up then. When I re-powered in 2019, my Beta 50 was about 6.5k complete with gearbox.

Yes, came as a shock to my wallet. When I started looking at selling my Bavaria and taking on a refurb project in early 2021 a Beta 30 was £5300 and just about all of the similar engines were about the same, plus everything was in stock. By the time I was in a position to buy prices had gone up by £1000 and delivery was at least 3 or 4 months. Some of the suppliers would not even quote for the job. I ordered at the end of April for early July but it was actually August before it was delivered. I understand prices have gone up since then.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

If I was buying a boat with a faulty Perkins Engine I would try and find an Agricultural (Farm) Mechanic as Perkins are the engine fitted in Tractors. I believe that Perkins have wet liners so they with new pistons can be lifted out and pressed in whilst a tractor is at a farm.
Find a local Massey Ferguson dealer near you and ask them if they have Mobile Mechanics. Certainly cheaper than a Marina Based Mechanic.

Yes, but will the marina/ yard allow an outside contractor to work on their premises?