Buying boat private sale deposit wont refund

[HelloBoat]

The fact they do not pick up the phone anymore or reply to emails is worrisome. If the seller does indeed feel the deposit is nonrefundable he should have no problem explaining that.
As you state that the sale does not go through because the buyer didn't sell their current boat, was this stated as a condition to making the offer?

 

[jrudge]

Given the scale of deposit ( until now it could have been £1000 on a £2000 sailing dingy, I would imagine this is actually a part payment in advance as opposed to a deposit ( depending of course on what the emails say).

This relates to horses but is similar

https://www.hcrlaw.com/blog/deposits-refund-retain/

See a lawyer - possibly one online who has a similar case study and knows what they are talking about. £20k is a big hit. The alternative of course is to complete the transaction and then sell it. You will loose less I suspect.

 

[Jpotts]

The fact they do not pick up the phone anymore or reply to emails is worrisome. If the seller does indeed feel the deposit is nonrefundable he should have no problem explaining that.
As you state that the sale does not go through because the buyer didn't sell their current boat, was this stated as a condition to making the offer?

Yeah he had mentioned that he was in the process of selling his old boat and was waiting for sale completion of that. He was contacted finally by phone today by the seller offering him the boat still. He is now too scared not to take the boat incase the guy keeps the deposit so he is best to take the boat really, that way avoiding any legal cost.

 

[derekbland]

I had two sales fall through. The first one I paid a deposit on but made it clear that the purchase was subject to me raising sufficient finance and had this written into the agreement from the broker. The second situation was a private sale and I would not part with any money until I had a survey and a sea trial along with seeing suitable documentation.

I know it may be difficult to share the sellers info for legal reasons but if your version of events is accurate and without seeing all the correspondence, I would love to know who this is.

I think you would have a strong case in getting the deposit returned as per a number of the posts above especially if it was made clear to the seller that the purchase was subject to the finance being raised. I would also like to know if a survey or any other documentation for the boat was sought or whether it was just a viewing.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I know it may be difficult to share the sellers info for legal reasons but if your version of events is accurate and without seeing all the correspondence, I would love to know who this is.

The OP absolutely should not share the sellers personal info, the result will be that this thread will get pulled pronto, and rightly so.

 

[derekbland]

The OP absolutely should not share the sellers personal info, the result will be that this thread will get pulled pronto, and rightly so.

Understood and I indicated that in my post. Still, it is a shame.

 

[jcwads]

Is the seller genuine - as in boat has been seen, inspected and trialled and verified? Otherwise sounds like some kind of scam. If genuine, but it and sell it.

 

[Grubble]

Yeah he had mentioned that he was in the process of selling his old boat and was waiting for sale completion of that. He was contacted finally by phone today by the seller offering him the boat still. He is now too scared not to take the boat incase the guy keeps the deposit so he is best to take the boat really, that way avoiding any legal cost.

Go and see a solicitor immediately - you will probably get a free consultation and the cost of writing a letter to the vendor will be £200 perhaps. Ignore people telling you to go to the small claims court, you need a solicitor.

If the vendor isn't a scammer you should be able to get your money back.

 

[BruceK]

To me it sounds like a scam or at the very least unethical, bullying practise. I really would speak to a lawyer before taking further action and certainly would subscribe to the buy it and recoup practice unless you have had independent verification that the boat is worth 40k and you could sell it on reasonably quickly for such taking just a loss on berthing storage. Certainly any joy in boat ownership with this particular vessel will have been eroded to the extent that it may not worth keeping.

 

[oldgit]

Devils advocate. I have just been out and put down a 50K deposit on my new boat simply because the purchaser of my present boat has confirmed the sale of my old boat to the extent that he has coughed up 50% of the price as proof that he is not a time waster. On the strength of this went ahead with purchase on my new boat, arranging surveys finance/ insurance and berth for new boat. Get phone call, buyer now wants to back out at last minute leaving me with lot of bills and grief. Give him back all of the deposit, your joking surely ? Surely action is to sell the boat , take any loss out of the deposit and return balance ? The guy may not be able to give that deposit back cos he aint got it any more , its sitting in the bank account of the owner of the boat he was hoping to buy. This may come as shock but some folks use the money from sale of old boat to immediately fund the new one !

 

[BruceK]

Devils advocate. I have just been out and put down a 50K deposit on my new boat simply because the purchaser of my present boat has confirmed the sale of my old boat to the extent that he has coughed up 50% of the price as proof that he is not a time waster. On the strength of this went ahead with purchase on my new boat, arranging surveys finance/ insurance and berth for new boat. Get phone call, buyer now wants to back out at last minute leaving me with lot of bills and grief. Give him back all of the deposit, your joking surely ? Surely action is to sell the boat , take any loss out of the deposit and return balance ? The guy may not be able to give that deposit back cos he aint got it any more , its sitting in the bank account of the owner of the boat he was hoping to buy. This may come as shock but some folks use the money from sale of old boat to immediately fund the new one !

And your sympathies lie with the seller despite him acting prematurely and passing the buck?

 

[Bigplumbs]

Re: Buying boat private sale deposit return refusal

I suspect from what the op say, there wasn’t one.

It would also be useful to know how much is involved.

I suspect Jimmy knew that and was trying to make a point

 

[julians]

On the few occasions I've sold a car privately (and one boat) and bought cars privately, in circumstances where there is no written contract , I've always considered the deposit non refundable in cases where the buyer simply changes their mind. If I (as the seller) decide to change my mind I would refund the buyer their deposit, but if the buyer just changes their mind I wouldn't give them the deposit back. However in all my buying/selling experiences it's been a deposit of a couple of hundred quid.

In the case of the op given the large amount I'd expect the seller to deduct any costs incurred, and refund the rest.

But it's really naive to put 50%down and the op is now in a pickle. The tricky one really.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I think you need to seriously consider if this whole thing is a scam and be careful about parting with any more money for the boat. The boat world (especially Boats and Outboards) used to be heaving with scammers

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Re: Buying boat private sale deposit return refusal

I suspect Jimmy knew that and was trying to make a point

No, I had no idea (how would I have known?). Speaking personally, I wouldn't ever consider giving someone a 20k deposit for anything without a written contract in place. It seems that the OP's relative has at best been a bit naive to have transferred just a large sum of money as a deposit for a transaction which cannot complete without a separate transaction also being completed - without considering the implications of a failure anywhere in the chain of transactions.

Of course, if the seller is insisting on specific performance of the sale, can the OP's relative similarly insist that his own buyer also completes?

 

[Jpotts]

Re: Buying boat private sale deposit return refusal

No, I had no idea (how would I have known?). Speaking personally, I wouldn't ever consider giving someone a 20k deposit for anything without a written contract in place. It seems that the OP's relative has at best been a bit naive to have transferred just a large sum of money as a deposit for a transaction which cannot complete without a separate transaction also being completed - without considering the implications of a failure anywhere in the chain of transactions.

Of course, if the seller is insisting on specific performance of the sale, can the OP's relative similarly insist that his own buyer also completes?

Oh 100% naive but thats what these pushy sellers do. They prey on people that don’t know any better typically older people as has been the case here. My relative didn’t know any better and assumed that was a normal deposit amount when buying. Obviously didn’t do enough research but as people have said 50% of a transaction like that is no where near reasonable to ask for a deposit only to wait til the transaction has been made to mention its non refundable.

The guy basically realized my relative was in a tough situation, nearly 100% guaranteed the sale of his old boat by a buyer only for him to ditch at the last minute. He wasn’t wasting the guys time and genuinely wanted the boat and still does but got pressured into handing over a large sum of money by a pushy salesman.

 

[Portofino]

Re: Buying boat private sale deposit return refusal

So it sounds like just a cash flow problem at the end of the day .

Your relative wants the boats but has not got the liquidity to complete .Correct ??

Nobodies scamming anybody ,if anything folks cocking off are causing all the angst .Of course in a chain of at least two maybe three ( oldgits point ^^^ )? It only takes the primary ,no 1 to cock off .

So he needs to borrow some £ in the short term to complete ( deposit / balance ratio irrelivant imho ) to tide him over until his planned funding asset sells .

Currently that funding asset is his present boat .Correct ??

So now he needs to approach a lender and use an asset ( what ever the lender accepts ) as collateral to get his hands on the balance .

Or the family help out , which would be a nice gesture btw .
I suggest family put there efforts into plugging the short term cash flow hole , either setting up a loan or personally getting involved .I realise they may or may not have the liquidity to help either .

 

[petem]

Re: Buying boat private sale deposit return refusal

I'd be worried about sending any more money to a trade vendor that has behaved in this way. As others have said, consult a solicitor and get some decent legal advice based on the exact circumstances of the case.

 

[Jpotts]

Re: Buying boat private sale deposit return refusal

So it sounds like just a cash flow problem at the end of the day .

Your relative wants the boats but has not got the liquidity to complete .Correct ??

Nobodies scamming anybody ,if anything folks cocking off are causing all the angst .Of course in a chain of at least two maybe three ( oldgits point ^^^ )? It only takes the primary ,no 1 to cock off .

So he needs to borrow some £ in the short term to complete ( deposit / balance ratio irrelivant imho ) to tide him over until his planned funding asset sells .

Currently that funding asset is his present boat .Correct ??

So now he needs to approach a lender and use an asset ( what ever the lender accepts ) as collateral to get his hands on the balance .

Or the family help out , which would be a nice gesture btw .
I suggest family put there efforts into plugging the short term cash flow hole , either setting up a loan or personally getting involved .I realise they may or may not have the liquidity to help either .

That is not the issue though. From the time he told him he probably cannot buy the vessel, the seller has since put the boat back on the market without even an email while still holding the deposit. It's not like the buyer was 100% wanting to pull out, he was just telling him he couldn't purchase at that time as his other deal had fallen through. But the seller didn't respond at all when emailed and has ignored calls. He was as disappointed as the seller was that his other deal had fallen through but the guy didn't respond and immediately readvertised.

The boat has been surveyed and everything so fully exists and my relative really wants to go ahead with it but the seller is proving difficult to talk to.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Re: Buying boat private sale deposit return refusal

I'd be worried about sending any more money to a trade vendor that has behaved in this way. As others have said, consult a solicitor and get some decent legal advice based on the exact circumstances of the case.

Where did you get 'trade vendor' from? OP says it was a private sale.