Buying an old 1970s boat in Holland, bringing it back to UK

[domvoll]

I've read many threads on post-Brexit implications of buying an old (1970s) sailing boat and bringing it back to the UK, but still have a logistical question.

I know I would have to:

1. Pay VAT at 20%.
2. Get the boat tested and approved as UKCA compliant.

Fine. But how does part 2 actually work?

A scenario: I live in the UK. I want to buy a Dutch boat, built in 1978, in Holland for £50,000 and keep it in the UK. I buy said Dutch boat in Holland for £50,000. I sail it back to the UK. I get to Ramsgate, say. I am a responsible citizen so I declare what I've bought in the EU. HMRC tells me I have to pay 20% VAT which is £10,000. Fine. I pay the VAT. HMRC are happy. I am happy.

What now? Who gets in touch with me to tell me to do the UKCA assessment and how? Is there someone from customs waiting for me at Ramsgate to tell me I must now get my boat tested and marked? Or do I get an email? A letter? A drone hovering over my house?

I've found no information on which government body then takes on my case, as it were. Is it HMRC? I assume not, but weirder things have happened.

Does anyone have an answer? I feel like it shouldn't be this complicated, but here we are...

 

[steve yates]

Gosh, you must really love that boat to put yourself through so much hassle and misery

 

[Tranona]

The situation is unclear. Formally Trading Standards enforce certification. You will be advised by customs to contact them. The normal process (pre Brexit) was to engage a certifying body to carry out a Post Construction Assessment, but the then rules exempted boats that were either built in the EEA or in service in the EEA before 1998, so only boats built, for example in the US needed a PCA. The situation since Brexit is unclear as that exemption does not seem to be carried over into UK law. A 1970s boat would not meet the latest (2017) standards so in theory it would not pass a PCA in the sort of category you would expect for the type of boat. There does not seem to be any information on how this is being applied. The only UK certifying body is HPI hpivs.com/ce-certification-2/rcr and if you are thinking of going down this road it would make sense to contact them.

 

[Rappey]

2. Get the boat tested and approved as UKCA compliant.

Can I buy a craft that does not appear to meet the RCD?​

If brand new, then No. When brand new, the craft should include: a Declaration of Conformity; Owner's Manual; Builder's Plate (including a CE mark); and a Craft Identification Number (CIN). The CIN has to be permanently fitted to the craft (such as stamped in the hull). Make sure that you see these before buying the boat.

If not brand new, then Yes. The RCD only applies when the craft is first placed on the Market or put into service (an example of being ‘put into service’ would be when used as a hire boat). So, if being sold as second-hand (no matter the age), unless imported from a non-EU country or being an ex-commercial craft, then it does not have to comply with the RCD. It is recommended that the craft be surveyed before buying.

Ring hmrc and talk to them.. seems you just pay 20% vat, a few percent import duty and that could be it...

After a little more reading it would appear the uk will accept a eu boat as long as it has a ce mark , until the end of the year.

Below is from yachting monthly -

The UK Government now says that CE marking alone is sufficient until the end of 2024.

From 1st January 2025, a UKCA mark is necessary but if the product was already CE compliant pre 1 Jan 2025, a sticky UKCA label needs to be affixed next to the CE mark and the product can then be declared to meet UK regulations using their CE certificate. There is no need to have a UK certificate, until 2028.

New products, CE marked from 1 Jan 2025 will need to have full and proper UCKA compliance.

Your boat is pre CE mark so I've no idea how that works.

 

[RivalRedwing]

The only UK certifying body is HPI hpivs.com/ce-certification-2/rcr and if you are thinking of going down this road it would make sense to contact them.

Then please tell us their response, ideally it coming in writing on headed paper

 

[domvoll]

Thanks all. Yes Rappey, pretty much what I thought. It's an old boat, pre-CE mark. Pay the VAT and sail off into the sunset, possibly. But I will speak with HPI, thanks for the link Tranona, and will check with HMRC too. I'll report back on any and all exciting updates and hope to get specific clarification. A maybe a boat. We'll see.

 

[LittleSister]

I don't have any expertise in the matter, but I imagine this is not a realistic plan.

1) I am fairly sure that a 1970s boat will not have the CE mark (mentioned by Rapper in post #4). My own 1979 Danish built boat does not have one, and according to the internet the CE mark requirements only started (generally) in 1985.

2) I would imagine getting a boat tested and approved would be expensive and logistically challenging

3) I don't know the RCD requirements, but I very much doubt whether a 1970s boat would comply in all respects.

 

[Sea Change]

New products, CE marked from 1 Jan 2025 will need to have full and proper UCKA compliance.

Watch this space. Non recognition of CE has already been delayed three times and the previous government intended to change tack and recognise it indefinitely. This hasn't been legislated for yet, but I would say that the current government are even likely to want to continue recognising it, being broadly more favourable towards the EU.

 

[westernman]

Watch this space. Non recognition of CE has already been delayed three times and the previous government intended to change tack and recognise it indefinitely. This hasn't been legislated for yet, but I would say that the current government are even likely to want to continue recognising it, being broadly more favourable towards the EU.

His boat almost certainly does not have a CE mark either.

This might be the get out of jail card (not free though):-

Conformity with designated standards “guarantees” conformity with the Regulations. Their application, however, is not mandatory. If designated standards are not suited to a specific product, any alternative standard or solution may be applied if it ensures equivalent safety. It can be difficult to demonstrate equivalent safety and harmonised standards should be applied wherever possible. HPiVS can advise on alternative methods.

 

[Tranona]

Can I buy a craft that does not appear to meet the RCD?​

If brand new, then No. When brand new, the craft should include: a Declaration of Conformity; Owner's Manual; Builder's Plate (including a CE mark); and a Craft Identification Number (CIN). The CIN has to be permanently fitted to the craft (such as stamped in the hull). Make sure that you see these before buying the boat.

If not brand new, then Yes. The RCD only applies when the craft is first placed on the Market or put into service (an example of being ‘put into service’ would be when used as a hire boat). So, if being sold as second-hand (no matter the age), unless imported from a non-EU country or being an ex-commercial craft, then it does not have to comply with the RCD. It is recommended that the craft be surveyed before buying.

Ring hmrc and talk to them.. seems you just pay 20% vat, a few percent import duty and that could be it...

After a little more reading it would appear the uk will accept a eu boat as long as it has a ce mark , until the end of the year.

Below is from yachting monthly -

The UK Government now says that CE marking alone is sufficient until the end of 2024.

From 1st January 2025, a UKCA mark is necessary but if the product was already CE compliant pre 1 Jan 2025, a sticky UKCA label needs to be affixed next to the CE mark and the product can then be declared to meet UK regulations using their CE certificate. There is no need to have a UK certificate, until 2028.

New products, CE marked from 1 Jan 2025 will need to have full and proper UCKA compliance.

Your boat is pre CE mark so I've no idea how that works.

That is just confusing the issue (which is confusing enough already) The first two paras (no source?) are almost certainly from pre Brexit as they refer to non EU. The rest of it only applies to post 2017 CE marked boats where the standard is identical to the UKCA and is purely administrative.

So none of it relevant to the OP's question.

 

[Tranona]

His boat almost certainly does not have a CE mark either.

This might be the get out of jail card (not free though):-

Do you have a source for this? Does it apply to leisure boats? if so in what circumstances and who determines whether such a process is acceptable?

 

[Rappey]

That is just confusing the issue

Probably..

 

[sniffyjenkins]

I don't have any expertise in the matter, but I imagine this is not a realistic plan.

1) I am fairly sure that a 1970s boat will not have the CE mark (mentioned by Rapper in post #4). My own 1979 Danish built boat does not have one, and according to the internet the CE mark requirements only started (generally) in 1985.

2) I would imagine getting a boat tested and approved would be expensive and logistically challenging

3) I don't know the RCD requirements, but I very much doubt whether a 1970s boat would comply in all respects.

I'd love to know who's checking and enforcing all of this,

 

[westernman]

Do you have a source for this? Does it apply to leisure boats? if so in what circumstances and who determines whether such a process is acceptable?

Yes. Your source!
UK Recreational Craft Regulations 2017 (RCR) – HPi Verification Services Ltd.

 

[Gustywinds]

Watch this space. Non recognition of CE has already been delayed three times and the previous government intended to change tack and recognise it indefinitely. This hasn't been legislated for yet, but I would say that the current government are even likely to want to continue recognising it, being broadly more favourable towards the EU.

Agreed. There has been a massive backlash in many industries against UKCA as it is creating extra work and cost. I suspect it will be dropped or only used for specific items where divergence is deemed necessary ( Mr Dyson’s non CE vacuums if he ever does them!)
Doesn’t help in this case as it’s too old to be CE compliant. People in the classic car business are suffering the same exporting to EU countries.

 

[Tranona]

Yes. Your source!
UK Recreational Craft Regulations 2017 (RCR) – HPi Verification Services Ltd.

But it does not apply to leisure craft where suitable standards already exist. There are always exclusions and exemptions, for example for pure racing boats, but I can't see any circumstances in the OP that would suggest an alternative might be used.

 

[Tranona]

I'd love to know who's checking and enforcing all of this,

Trading Standards are responsible. However in reality there is not much to do with private imports of old boats because most people take one look at what is involved of which certification is just one part and don't even try. The few that do engage professionals to make the arrangements.

 

[Dellquay13]

I might be barking up the completely wrong tree, but since the CE mark is still acceptable in the UK and just needs a UKCA sticker next to it, would it be a better signposted and more easily navigated path to get CE conformity before the boat leaves the EU, than an untried path to UKCA once in the UK?

 

[Tranona]

I might be barking up the completely wrong tree, but since the CE mark is still acceptable in the UK and just needs a UKCA sticker next to it, would it be a better signposted and more easily navigated path to get CE conformity before the boat leaves the EU, than an untried path to UKCA once in the UK?

No. The boat would not meet the standards, wherever it is.. The current CE mark to the 2017 RCD is equal to the UKCA but not previous iterations.

 

[benjenbav]

Perhaps it’s a sign of rushed legislation that pre-CE boats weren’t grandfathered into UK compliance. The numbers imported must be small; the values low; the cost of processing any compliance checking easily outweighing any possible benefits on items that have largely proved that they work acceptably simply by staying afloat for half a century (in the case of the boat contemplated by the OP).

But such it is, I guess.