D
Deleted member 478
Guest
If you've bought an ex-Sunsail, or other, charter boat, as a percentage, how much below the asking price did you pay? Secondly, how difficult were they to deal with?
RJJ
Well-Known Member
My only submission is, like the boat, second-hand. We moored next to a very smart Jeanneau 36 in Greece. The guy had spent some decent money on cosmetic refit above decks (hull stripes changed from Sunsail red to dark blue).
He extolled the virtues of the whole process. He particularly said the engine was superbly maintained (remembering that most yacht engines suffer from under-use). The price reflected cosmetic condition and need for new sails.
He pointed out that these firms have an interest in reputation as a seller and maintainer of boats; remember how many "shared owners" they try to keep happy. Plus they lose lots of money if boats break down mid-season or mid-charter.
Like I said, second hand but a pretty fulsome report. That said, different charter bases may have different management; it only takes one lazy engineer with a sloppy supervisor and (given heavy usage) the whole fleet might be in need of refurb by the end of the season.
He extolled the virtues of the whole process. He particularly said the engine was superbly maintained (remembering that most yacht engines suffer from under-use). The price reflected cosmetic condition and need for new sails.
He pointed out that these firms have an interest in reputation as a seller and maintainer of boats; remember how many "shared owners" they try to keep happy. Plus they lose lots of money if boats break down mid-season or mid-charter.
Like I said, second hand but a pretty fulsome report. That said, different charter bases may have different management; it only takes one lazy engineer with a sloppy supervisor and (given heavy usage) the whole fleet might be in need of refurb by the end of the season.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
I think we bid 20 percent below asking and asked for 31 faults to be remedied. We got about 10 percent off and 15 of them fixed. Still got the boat 10 years later.
NormanB
Well-Known Member
I was out in Greece this September and had a few opportunities to witness in detail how NISOS looked after ‘their’ fleet and was very impressed.Very well organised and methodical post charter turn arounds with very detailed task schedules for the well staffed and experienced team. I know it is a little thing but the fact they took the dinghies to shore in batches of 2 or 3 and set about topping up air chambers, cleaning the boat including the flipping the dinghy over and getting rid of the ‘scum’, drying the inside out and inspecting the painter, bridle and attachment points. I was not chartering with them but would consider doing so. I think any boat being sold from this fleet would be in better condition than exclusively owned and used boats so may well achieve market value. They are a small operator and only have around 20 odd yachts in the fleet - the dozen I saw were immaculate.
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
I bought my own boat off my own charter company when I retired 6 yrs ago. It was chartered out through Hamble Point Yacht Charters for 11yrs. It was always well maintained.
Given it some TLC.
New sails, new saloon floor(original by Jeanneau had varying gaps at edges - my new one fits superb) new leather upholstery, new cooker (wife wanted a grille)etc etc.
Boats like to be used. One other Charter boat owner said to me his Charter boat was always in better repair than his previous lightly used boat.
Conclusion is that providing charter boats are well maintained, they do get additional wear but given some TLC will probably give less problems than a lightly used boat.
Its always a recommendation for any make of boat that they are on the charter market as those with weaknesses don't survive long!
Given it some TLC.
New sails, new saloon floor(original by Jeanneau had varying gaps at edges - my new one fits superb) new leather upholstery, new cooker (wife wanted a grille)etc etc.
Boats like to be used. One other Charter boat owner said to me his Charter boat was always in better repair than his previous lightly used boat.
Conclusion is that providing charter boats are well maintained, they do get additional wear but given some TLC will probably give less problems than a lightly used boat.
Its always a recommendation for any make of boat that they are on the charter market as those with weaknesses don't survive long!
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
I bought my boat from Suncharter when they were in Marmaris. They are a German company, they equip and maintain their boats very well and are good to deal with. I did not negotiate a very big discount on their asking price but they proved great to deal with. After purchase I had a failure of the log/depth instrument. I phoned them for advice and they sent one of their engineers to me and replaced the faulty instrument with a spare one that they had, without charge.
markspark7
Well-Known Member
Went over to Preveza / Nidri to buy an ex sunsail B42 , although not directly from Sunsail themselves,
boat was in ok condition but like Hertz / Avis hire cars, it all depends on how they have been used abused over the years.
Be interested to see how the new generation Bavaria's look after 10 years hard graft afloat.
boat was in ok condition but like Hertz / Avis hire cars, it all depends on how they have been used abused over the years.
Be interested to see how the new generation Bavaria's look after 10 years hard graft afloat.
Clancy Moped
Well-Known Member
I don't know if this is B-S, but one bit of advice I've heard over years is buy small, as it will have had less partying.
D
Deleted member 478
Guest
Makes perfect sense.
neil1967
Well-Known Member
If the yacht is advertised as ex charter, then I would expect that fact to have been reflected in the asking price. We used to own a charter yacht, that was chartered out through a small operator in Turkey. The maintenance and attention to detail was exceptional - how many yachts do you know that have the anchor chain end-to-ended each year?
Euphonyx
Well-Known Member
I can vouch for that. Nisos boats are impeccably maintained and they are a small and very personal outfit. I couldn't get over how perfect the boat was the first time we went with them compared to our earlier experiences with larger outfits where the boats were well worn and in need of constant fiddling throughout the holiday
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
I bought my boat from a relatively small Croatian charter company, not Sunsail.
There are no end of bodges and quick-fixes that happen to charter boats during their lives, and these "quick fixes" are done on turnaround day to get the boat back out again, they may also be done by the charterers themselves to avoid loss of holiday time, and many never get re-visited and repaired properly. I've spent the last 10 years slowly improving my boat and I am still finding things (often electrical) that have been bodged by someone.
Charter companies tend to put their boats up for sale at the beginning of their last season, with handover at the end of the season. The best ones go first, so try and get in early to secure a good boat.
My prime driver was cost - as cheap as possible while still being seaworthy - my boat was cheap ... very cheap ... in fact the cheapest 11-12m AWB I could find in Croatia in 2011 that wasn't a "project" boat. It also came with full charter inventory minus dinghy, outboard and bedding.
I asked the charter company if I could charter the boat for a week, early in its last season ... and if they would refund the charter cost if I subsequently bought the boat. They agreed to this. During the week charter I dismantled the boat, checking in every nook and cranny, photographing everything from the top of the mast to the keel, rudder etc. I had it hauled out and checked over and valued by a boatyard run by some Germans I knew from Munich. The boat was scruffy but fundamentally sound so I paid the deposit.
When it came to final payment in September I went back down to check the boat over .... It had had it's Victron battery charger replaced with a rusty piece of rubbish, looked like a cheap car battery charger. The boat had also been grounded during the season and had cracked laminate at the rear of the keel, the grid in the floor was damaged and the furniture/woodwork round the heads/chart table was also cracked and in places detached. The charter company claimed it had always been like that until I showed them my photographs from my April charter.
They offered me a repair, my money back, or another boat from their fleet. I took another boat which was in better condition than the one I had originally agreed to purchase.
At the inspection before final payment, negotiate hard and either give them a list of things to fix, or get a reduction in price. They will already have ordered the replacement for their fleet and will be keen to ensure that the sale goes through. A company like Sunsail is also interested in residuals, so will ensure the boat is as good as it can be when they sell it. The downside is that they tend to be more expensive than some of the alternatives.
Almost a decade later I have now spent way more on marina fees and running costs than I have on the boat itself - and I've had loads of fantastic and memorable holidays with my family and friends.
Ex-charter boats are a mixed bag, so it's buyer beware as always, but if you are interested in sailing a modern, spacious boat on a budget and aren't a perfectionist when it comes to condition then there is a lot to recommend.
There are no end of bodges and quick-fixes that happen to charter boats during their lives, and these "quick fixes" are done on turnaround day to get the boat back out again, they may also be done by the charterers themselves to avoid loss of holiday time, and many never get re-visited and repaired properly. I've spent the last 10 years slowly improving my boat and I am still finding things (often electrical) that have been bodged by someone.
Charter companies tend to put their boats up for sale at the beginning of their last season, with handover at the end of the season. The best ones go first, so try and get in early to secure a good boat.
My prime driver was cost - as cheap as possible while still being seaworthy - my boat was cheap ... very cheap ... in fact the cheapest 11-12m AWB I could find in Croatia in 2011 that wasn't a "project" boat. It also came with full charter inventory minus dinghy, outboard and bedding.
I asked the charter company if I could charter the boat for a week, early in its last season ... and if they would refund the charter cost if I subsequently bought the boat. They agreed to this. During the week charter I dismantled the boat, checking in every nook and cranny, photographing everything from the top of the mast to the keel, rudder etc. I had it hauled out and checked over and valued by a boatyard run by some Germans I knew from Munich. The boat was scruffy but fundamentally sound so I paid the deposit.
When it came to final payment in September I went back down to check the boat over .... It had had it's Victron battery charger replaced with a rusty piece of rubbish, looked like a cheap car battery charger. The boat had also been grounded during the season and had cracked laminate at the rear of the keel, the grid in the floor was damaged and the furniture/woodwork round the heads/chart table was also cracked and in places detached. The charter company claimed it had always been like that until I showed them my photographs from my April charter.
They offered me a repair, my money back, or another boat from their fleet. I took another boat which was in better condition than the one I had originally agreed to purchase.
At the inspection before final payment, negotiate hard and either give them a list of things to fix, or get a reduction in price. They will already have ordered the replacement for their fleet and will be keen to ensure that the sale goes through. A company like Sunsail is also interested in residuals, so will ensure the boat is as good as it can be when they sell it. The downside is that they tend to be more expensive than some of the alternatives.
Almost a decade later I have now spent way more on marina fees and running costs than I have on the boat itself - and I've had loads of fantastic and memorable holidays with my family and friends.
Ex-charter boats are a mixed bag, so it's buyer beware as always, but if you are interested in sailing a modern, spacious boat on a budget and aren't a perfectionist when it comes to condition then there is a lot to recommend.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
I agree with Baggywrinkle. We bought ours in Croatia 10 years ago off Sunsail and the list of broken things and hidden bodges and replacement of good kit (the autohelm course computer for example) with crap stuff was huge. But the price was really good and the boat was ready to sail so everything else could be done when we had the time and money. There are now fewer half full but disconnected loo outlet pipes, electrical tape only connections, broken catches, melted lights, missing screws, twisted wire connections and so on than before but every season we still find some little gem.
We got a boat that was just the way it looked and felt before we would have been able to afford a properly maintained one so are very happy.
We got a boat that was just the way it looked and felt before we would have been able to afford a properly maintained one so are very happy.
