buying abroad

[Guest]

A broker has just called me with a Targa 29 1998 for £70000 which is a great price.The drawback is that the boat is in Portugal, British owned and registered with VAT paid 1 owner 120 hours.What are the problems with buying overseas i appreciate it will cost a further £2000-£2500 to have her transported back to blighty.

 

[BarryD]

Re: buying abroad - not help comment.

WOW - you got a broker to phone you? I'm impressed. Following the survey could'nt you just sail her back from Portugal?

 

[Guest]

Re: buying abroad - not help comment.

I have no experience at sea ,so i dont fancy bringing all the way from Portugal.

 

[BarryD]

Re: buying abroad - not help comment.

Understandable - I was (still am) in the same "boat" but the distance was much shorter only a 150NM to travel. Charter skippers cost about £125 a day and you can gain some valuable lessons, in how your boat handles.

Avoid Dungerness soup and grated cheese are ones I'd recommend straight away.

 

[peterg]

Matt only charged you £125 a day?

blimey, what did you do, pay his drinks bill ?! ;-)

 

[ChrisW]

Buying abroad is no more complicated then in the UK. Just make sure that when you purchase the vessel you are issued with an official Bill of Sale which you can order for free from YBDSA. Also ensure that you have proof of paid VAT. I can fax you a copy of the Bill of Sale if you wish.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I've bought a couple of boats in Europe and in both cases the purchase went without a hitch except for some minor documentation problems with the first one but there are potential problems:

1. Not knowing whether there are any debts on the boat in Portugal
2. Paying money over to a foreign broker and trusting him to hand it over to the owner (the biggest danger IMHO)
3. Ensuring you have all the proper documentation ie ORIGINAL Builders Certificate and Invoice showing VAT paid
4. Taking possession of the boat on the day you pay
5. Trusting a local surveyor to survey the boat
6. Ensuring the deal is done on a UK Bill of Sale (to prove you have title to the boat when you sell it on)

If you want to be really safe, you could do the following

1. Fly a UK surveyor out to do the survey
2. Nose around the yard asking about the boat. You're looking for unpaid bills
3. Make an offer subject to 3 conditions, first that your money is transferred direct to the owner with the owner settling the broker's commission (the broker will not like this at all), second that all documentation is presented to you PRIOR to payment and, third, that the sale is recorded on normal UK Bill of Sale
4. On the day your money hits the owner's account, you be in Portugal to take possession of the boat and either move it to another marina or put it on a truck immediately

If the sale is through a well known UK based broker rather than a Portugese one, its safer as you have somebody to sue in the UK if it goes pear shaped but you really dont want to get to that situation

Good luck

 

[ari]

You'll also want the builders certificate and any previous Bills of Sale (i.e. Builders certificate to retailer, Bill of Sale to first owner, Bill of Sale from first owner to second owner (you if you are second owner, if not then full chain of Bill of Sales to current owner then one from him to you). If he's not got these then you have to ask yourself whether a finance company has (as security against an unregistered loan, remember, they still are entitled to repossess boat if not settled).

Also find out if the boat is registered (Full Part One, SSR virtually meaningless) and if so obtain a transcript of registry from Swansea to ensure there isn't a marine mortgage lodged against it.

Ari

 

[jfm]

Better the devil you know?

Assuming everything checks out (I mean as to title, VAT paid, no mortgages, etc etc) then why not take advantage of the fact that the seller is UK-based by making sure the sale contract is done under English law? Then if any prob, you can sort it locally. Much easier than filing suit in Portugal. Seller prob prefers that too.

Most contracts made in UK are assumed to be subject to UK law but you might get some Portuguese docs to sign from the local broker. In which case put it beyond doubt by writing (in hand if necessary) onto the contract (or bill of sale or whatever equivalent) the words "This contract shall be governed by and construed in accordance with English law and the parties irrevokably agree that the courts of England shall have exclusive jurisdiction to settle any disputes arising from this contract", or something along those lines.

These words are by habit written as the last clause in a contract, just before the signatures, but that's just style and not crucial. Also cross out any contradictory words saying portuguese courts have authority

 

[BarryD]

Re: Matt only charged you £125 a day?

DaveS, Matts, KevB and his pal Gary all did it for free / sea time. And bloody grateful I was too.

 

[david_steward]

Re: If...

I had known you were going to honk everywhere at the first sign of a ripple, I'd have bloody well charged you...

Ha Ha

Dave S

 

[petem]

What engines does said T29 have?

 

[Guest]

Re: eek

I have lots of experinece at sea, and would be extrremly cautious about bring T29 back by sea. Main "expense" is plenty of time to wait for nice weather, and with relatively short range its hoppity hoppity all the way around. If you have a job, it's be much cheaper to bring it back most if not all of the way by road. Or of course, leave it there and go into the med, which is a lovely place to enjoy this sort of boat, but less accessible...

 

[BarryD]

Re: If...

If I'd know you were going to drive it head on into a wind over tide F5 then I'd have paid you to leave me behind!

ROFL

Barry D.

 

[Guest]

She has 170,s

 

[boatone]

Re: If...ha..ha...

s'pose this could be called a sick joke...............

TonyR
boatone@boatsontheweb.com

 

[chas]

Re: buying abroad - not help comment.

Would you not motor it back?

 

[Guest]

Re: motoring back

I think you might be thinking "raggily" chas? A 29 footer sailboat from portugal okay, but a powerboat will pitch about and have limited range. Both need plenty of time, but small powerboat not well suited imho

 

[petem]

Re: motoring back

Quite agree. Used to get knackered taking mine from Port Solent to Ryde!

 

[petem]

Good engines, great acceleration, had the same in my T30 that I sold before the summer. Only complaint is that the compressers can be a bit noisy at harbour speeds (8 - 10 knots).

Presume you're still going to 'try an offer'?