Buying a yacht in Netherlands and registering in UK post January 2021

[Tiderace]

I cant comment on the tax situation but if you are going to get a survey i would VERY strongly recommed you contract a UK surveyor under UK law and fly them out to do your survey.

I have a very big hole in my bank account due to a surveyour in Holland who was incompetant. My solicitor advised that the only way to take legal action would be to retain a barrister over there and take them to court, estimated to cost me £5-10k just to get into court!!! His advise was unless it was a 6 figure repair bill to take it on the chin and walk away.

For the cost of a flight and perhaps a hotel and a extra day, ...!

Good luck and enjoy the new boat.

 

[Pete7]

I cant comment on the tax situation but if you are going to get a survey i would VERY strongly recommed you contract a UK surveyor under UK law and fly them out to do your survey.

I would strongly recommend adding up the sums plus the difficulties and then comparing to what is available on the UK market in the Spring. Will be a lot less stressful.

Pete

 

[RJJ]

My limited and inexpert understanding is that if you complete after 1 Jan and then import, then VAT is payable. You can try haggling down on the basis VAT is payable (just as a Frenchman will try to do if he likes the look of a UK-VAT boat). If the seller's keen and lacks another EU buyer, I'm guessing that the VAT on a 1995 boat won't be a million miles from a year's mooring expense...everything's negotiable.

If you complete before 1 Jan, I believe the export takes place on the date of transition, so I would then claim RGR.

Or you can just take your chances. I know we all talk about the importance of a VAT receipt when we buy and sell boats, but has anyone actually been asked for one, apart from at the point of sale?

 

[michael_w]

PM me if you would like an English translation of the standard HISWA sales contract. I too have had my fingers burnt by an incompetent Dutch surveyor.

 

[lustyd]

But of course that cannot visit the boat in Schengen for more than 90 days a every 6 months.

UK residents will absolutely be able to spend more than 90 days in Schengen with the right paperwork for the country they are in. One single default visa free access does not dictate all of the access to the countries in Schengen, it's just a convenience to reduce paperwork for holiday makers who want to travel about for a few months. Also, this has nothing whatsoever to do with tax or boat buying.

 

[Graham376]

As a matter of interest, how many people returning to the UK in a UK registered boat, have been asked about its VAT status? We haven't in countless trips so, leaving out the moral argument about declaration, what are the chances of being caught.

 

[lustyd]

It makes no difference how many people were asked before. The government just spaffed £10-15k per tax payer on Covid and Brexit will likely have an impact on the coffers too. They just decided to start paying farmers to stop farming. Not to mention the billions promised to the military to bolster our peacetime forces over the next couple of years.

That money is coming from somewhere, and it might as well be rich yachties.

The real question isn't who has been stopped; it's who's going to be stopped, and how often.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

The real question isn't who has been stopped; it's who's going to be stopped, and how often.

I don't doubt that we will be taxed more in the future in some way, but I don't think it will be this way. It would only be worthwhile to enforce it if the cost to collect it was lower than the amount collected. I suspect the former would be high, and the latter low, so therefore it will not be enforced. There are much easier ways to raise more tax that require little effort - fuel duty, stamp duty, IHT, income tax, VAT, corporation tax, NI etc. Take your pick which one will go up first.

 

[[70521]]

jrudge (and others) have given the same answer that HMRC would give when they got round to replying sometime late next year.

Perhaps so, but their answers are not valid in court.

 

[RJJ]

I don't doubt that we will be taxed more in the future in some way, but I don't think it will be this way. It would only be worthwhile to enforce it if the cost to collect it was lower than the amount collected. I suspect the former would be high, and the latter low, so therefore it will not be enforced. There are much easier ways to raise more tax that require little effort - fuel duty, stamp duty, IHT, income tax, VAT, corporation tax, NI etc. Take your pick which one will go up first.

Yep. Think about the tens of thousands of boats, and tens of thousands of channel/North sea/Irish sea crossings each year. Most will draw a straight blank as VAT status will be clear, but it will still take time and effort to establish that.

Then you will have loads where the paperwork doesn't look quite right, but the owner of some middle-aged craft vehemently disputes the HMRC claim. it's going to be hard going when they are whacking people with tens of k bills on a "guilty until proven innocent" basis; it only takes a few days of court and lawyer time before the costs exceed the expected proceeds.

 

[Ningaloo]

UK residents will absolutely be able to spend more than 90 days in Schengen with the right paperwork for the country they are in. One single default visa free access does not dictate all of the access to the countries in Schengen, it's just a convenience to reduce paperwork for holiday makers who want to travel about for a few months. Also, this has nothing whatsoever to do with tax or boat buying.

Please tell me how I can do this as I have not found any way of extending the 90 day Schengen tourist visa with a UK passport. The only way I can do so is by obtaining a single country (France or Italy) extension visa with my Australian passport, however this is limited in that it must be used AFTER to 90 day Schengen visa which does not help me as France will be the first country I visit next year, moving on to Spain, Portugal then Spain again as I move towards the Med.

 

[lustyd]

you described how to do it. Speak to each country you want to visit and discuss options and plan your trip accordingly. Travel is always like this, just thank your lucky stars you're not visiting Australia which seems to have quite a tight border

 

[Ningaloo]

In general these extension visas are only available on a reciprocal basis. So I can get an extension for France OR Italy (but as the terms of the extension require you to leave Schengen from the country that grants the extension, you can only have one within any 6 month period).
Given that UK is offering EU citizens a 180/365 visa it will be interesting to see how many Schengen states offer extensions to UK passport holders. I am not aware of any having passed legislation or agreed to do so yet.
So I ask again, how can a UK passport holder to apply for such an extension? Please provide links.

 

[Graham376]

So I ask again, how can a UK passport holder to apply for such an extension? Please provide links.

I agree with what you've said. UK citizens don't need visas so, how can something we don't need or have be extended? For those nationalities who need visas, extensions are only granted for specific reasons, tourism isn't one of them. There are rumours that some countries may allow UK citizens extended stays but it's only rumours and those extensions won't allow extra time in other Schengen countries anyway.

 

[Ningaloo]

Although UK citizens don't need to apply for a visa in advance (until 2022) entry to the EU is subject to a decision taken by immigration officers at the point of arrival which (I believe) will involve a passport stamp. I regard this as a visa by any other name. Or possible an entry permit? Anyway I think the point is we no longer have automatic right of entry and each entry/exit is clearly logged..
I am well aware of how extensions work (as I will probably make use of those offered to me as an Australian citizen) and as previously described, these are cumbersome and limited. They can only be used one you have used up the full 90 day Schengen allowance and once used, you must exit the Schengen zone from the country that grants the extension. This might work for someone flying in to their holiday home, but it won't work for someone who has to drive through other Schengen countries to get to/from their home, and it won't work for the typical cruiser who spends time in multiple countries. When in the Baltic I visited Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Lithuania and Latvia in a single season over a period of five months. I would often switch between Copenhagen (Denmark) and Malmo (Sweden) many times in a season.
I think lustyd is mistaken in believing that there are options open to UK passport holders to do this sort of cruising now.

 

[Tiderace]

As a matter of interest, how many people returning to the UK in a UK registered boat, have been asked about its VAT status? We haven't in countless trips so, leaving out the moral argument about declaration, what are the chances of being caught.

Never for me. But it wouldn't be the UK side I would be worried about, but any port outside, we all know how "officious" French etc. can be if they want to be!

 

[Ningaloo]

Never for me. But it wouldn't be the UK side I would be worried about, but any port outside, we all know how "officious" French etc. can be if they want to be!

You haven't been asked before because there was freedom of movement and we "shared" VAT with the EU. Just as you will need to enter EU via a port of entry, EU boats will need to do the same in UK so I think in those ports at least we will see a greater presence from Border Force and HMRC on the pontoons. I think that the chances of a UK flagged boat being inspected is still small, but higher than in the past.

 

[dunedin]

As a matter of interest, how many people returning to the UK in a UK registered boat, have been asked about its VAT status? We haven't in countless trips so, leaving out the moral argument about declaration, what are the chances of being caught.

As others have said, it was very different before when returning to UK was often just within EU, so no formalities at all.

Returning to UK from the EU will now entail hoisting Q flag, phoning the Yachtline to clear in, and submitting a copy of from C1331 (or whatever replaces it) - expect to get asked, about VAT status in steps 2 and 3.