Buying a used motor yacht in Italy / Need some help for sales process

[47GC]

I’d say take a manufacturer approved engineer in the trial. They will be able to plug in to the engine and see previous alarms etc. mine cleared the logs, then we did the sea trial, back in port they connected to see any new faults etc. Definitely worth the money, they found a potential damaged seal etc.

 

[Skipper Felice]

Yacht survey: lift out - yes or no?

From the documentation I can see, that hull and antifouling was done in spring 2024. The yacht was operating around 70 hours in summer 2024. Since september 2024 the boat is moored in the marina, Liguria, Italy. It looks that the boat had very good overall maintenance ... ...

Is it important to do a lift for detailed hull inspection this February?

 

[rafiki_]

Yacht survey: lift out - yes or no?

From the documentation I can see, that hull and antifouling was done in spring 2024. The yacht was operating around 70 hours in summer 2024. Since september 2024 the boat is moored in the marina, Liguria, Italy. It looks that the boat had very good overall maintenance ... ...

Is it important to do a lift for detailed hull inspection this February?

Definitely important.

 

[MapisM]

Is it important to do a lift for detailed hull inspection this February?

Yes.
And regardless of how well maintained: you don't want to skip that on used boats in general, let alone one which is 18yo!
BTW, it's also crucial to clean her BEFORE the seatrial, because you don't want to hear any excuses in the event that she doesn't perform as she should.

 

[47GC]

Yacht survey: lift out - yes or no?

From the documentation I can see, that hull and antifouling was done in spring 2024. The yacht was operating around 70 hours in summer 2024. Since september 2024 the boat is moored in the marina, Liguria, Italy. It looks that the boat had very good overall maintenance ... ...

Is it important to do a lift for detailed hull inspection this February?

Yes. 100%.

 

[Tranona]

Yacht survey: lift out - yes or no?

From the documentation I can see, that hull and antifouling was done in spring 2024. The yacht was operating around 70 hours in summer 2024. Since september 2024 the boat is moored in the marina, Liguria, Italy. It looks that the boat had very good overall maintenance ... ...

Is it important to do a lift for detailed hull inspection this February?

Yes, not only to make sure the bottom is clean before sea trials but to check there is no damage to the hull and particularly the stern gear and bow thruster. Your surveyor will insist anyway as he can't give a full report without seeing the underwater parts.

 

[Portofino]

A diver will get it sea trail ready .The current owner will know one in his marina.

I think everyone knows it needs a clean bottom / sterngear ……that’s a given to pass the trial .
Your appointed engineer will email ( copying in both parties ) that it’s got an appointment to be cleaned and likely to check its gonna be clean before accepting the commission to sea trail the engines .Everyone will be in a big email chain .
Owner , broker , buyer , diver .survey engineers .

In Liguria they tend to do a biannual lift +AF , using a diver the 2 nd yr to clean it and do any required underwater anode replacement .

What happened when I sold mine ( was based in Loano ) I paid around May time for a diver to clean it , they did it a few days before the prospect flew in .His engineer vis the broker made sure I had arranged this and it was done before anyone arrived on the boat .Also the buyer then paid his deposit knowing he’s wasn’t wasting his time , and arranged flights ets
. WOT is 2200 iirc - as you can see it achieved it and the jacket temp stayed a steady 84 - not shown + zero alarms …..which there are a zillion sensors btw .
This is just one screen shot the whole trial was some circa 3 hrs with two engineers + lap tops connected etc .


Having stood up to this test the buyer paid up to 50 % with the balance to follow after a lift out survey.

In my custody it was on a biannual lift regime …the local yard didn’t want to do it annually in that area so just followed local practices .The 2nd yr you get a diver for €300 + anodes to clean it .The AF they used worked pretty well over 2 yrs .

So the buyer at the lift ( he funded ) paid the yard for a full AF , + anodes and much more eg hull polish …..in a while it’s out seeing as iam paying and gonna buy but the thing might as well get stuff done .
His area apparently has aggressive fouling .
I volunteered to move it to the buyers chosen marina ( yard ) for the lift some 30 miles away .
The std hull survey, with scratch pads moisture tests etc was unremarkable , it’s this bit the buyer wanted reassurance and it seems most buyers need .

CAUTION——- Italian surveyor indemnity ins means the boat has to sit on the hard for a defined period ( 1-2 weeks * ) before the moisture count .
* you need to check this current time period your surveyor requests to cover his arse .

So you the buyer will have to fund this . It’s not a U.K. hold in the slings jobbie in IT .

Due to bad weather some of the additional work the buyer wanted was delayed ( re painting the white top sides ) .
Buyer was funding the additional yard work , all the time technically despite his huge depo I still legally owned the boat .
I had used the yard before ( coincidence) so they knew me and boat . I did periodically pop down from CH to eye ball the work , and check the yard were being paid realising there was a risk to me if the buyer evaporated…but he had paid 1/2 the sale price anyhow so we had funds more than enough to pay the yard for all the additional work should the worst happen . Also a plan B of relaunch and I would rtn France some 130 miles away if a bun fight kicked off - it didn’t.

When it was completed the buyer paid up the difference of the initial agreed signed sale price .
There’s a bit of give and take and trust involved esp with Italians inho .
On the first viewing ( boat in the marina ) I accompanied him + family and they took myself + wife + dog out to lunch .
We got to know each other.
The sea trail i helmed with the broker , two engineers , buyer + two friends again buyer insisted on picking up the restaurant tab afterwards.

I let them temporarily use my berth FOC after it was relaunched and all accounts settled . Assisted with there prep for departure . The insurance I put them on my policy while it’s was still flying a red and went with the buyer to the town hall to get the sale notarised .

PYB of this parish acted as the the introducer , broker and oiled the wheels .

Sure there is a scrip but as said you ( well me ) have to suss out the buyer and it’s a two way street I assume .
Meaning the seller will suss out the OP when he views the boat in Q . Asking “ can I do a deal with this guy “
Can you both work together?




Bon voyage as they say ^ .
2days later it arrived in Palmero.



Hope your purchase goes as smoothly as these guys did …..it should .

 

[Portofino]

Yes.
And regardless of how well maintained: you don't want to skip that on used boats in general, let alone one which is 18yo!
BTW, it's also crucial to clean her BEFORE the seatrial, because you don't want to hear any excuses in the event that she doesn't perform as she should.

Problem with lift n scub is the time delay in the yard at the buyers expense, it will require blocking off and standing to meet the newfangled IT surveyors indemnity requirements.

Shame it might then fail it’s engine survey some 2 weeks or so later .

Better in my view to get the thing dived on to clean it up for a engine survey first ….then do the hull survey 2 nd .

And if it’s a go er ( after the results of the hull survey) just like my buyer commission said yard for anything else .eg fresh AF while it’s out and anodes etc if needed .
The hull patches need making good anyhow.

 

[rafiki_]

Yes, not only to make sure the bottom is clean before sea trials but to check there is no damage to the hull and particularly the stern gear and bow thruster. Your surveyor will insist anyway as he can't give a full report without seeing the underwater parts.

Always worth a moisture check too. I know from personal experience.

 

[Skipper Felice]

Always worth a moisture check too. I know from personal experience.

Do you mean with "moisture check" .... inspection of the hull for osmosis?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Do you mean with "moisture check" .... inspection of the hull for osmosis?

Not necessarily osmosis, but moisture penetration of the GRP.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yacht survey: lift out - yes or no?

From the documentation I can see, that hull and antifouling was done in spring 2024. The yacht was operating around 70 hours in summer 2024. Since september 2024 the boat is moored in the marina, Liguria, Italy. It looks that the boat had very good overall maintenance ... ...

Is it important to do a lift for detailed hull inspection this February?

Seems to me that you’re trying to shave a few dollars / euros from the purchase process. You’re seriously misguided here, if that’s the case; get this wrong and you’ll spend 500k or whatever on the wrong boat, you must focus on getting the right boat! Buy with your eyes open, pay for a great surveyor, spend money on the lift and the survey, engineers, sea trial, and the legal / title / history checks. Because if you don’t, you might buy something that looks good but is fatally flawed. Or dangerous. Or not actually yours.

 

[rafiki_]

Do you mean with "moisture check" .... inspection of the hull for osmosis?

Osmosis is one issue, but you should look for moisture in general.

 

[Skipper Felice]

It's time for an update:

I will have a first view / survey of the boat together with the brooker mid February. The boat had 2 owners for the last 20 years and (seems) to be in very good condition. She is 20 years Italian flag / ownership. The asking price is +/- on my calculation on the deperciation line for this kind of motoryacht.

During our first insight and going though my checklist (that's around 150 tech. checkpoints ) we will have one day at the marina - we will decide for the ongoing process.
I will organize (and pay) for a sea trial together with an independent, qualified engineer checking ALL available engine data and sailing the boat WOT ...
Based on the report of the sea trial we will make final descisions.

I will keep you informed and I value all the great information I have got from your discussion points.

 

[Skipper Felice]

Additional legal question:

What (paper, certificate, contract ...) is the legal proof of ownership after done the purchase of the boat in Italy ?
Is there some "official" paper or "receipt" from the owner after payment?

 

[Tranona]

It's time for an update:

I will have a first view / survey of the boat together with the brooker mid February. The boat had 2 owners for the last 20 years and (seems) to be in very good condition. She is 20 years Italian flag / ownership. The asking price is +/- on my calculation on the deperciation line for this kind of motoryacht.

During our first insight and going though my checklist (that's around 150 tech. checkpoints ) we will have one day at the marina - we will decide for the ongoing process.
I will organize (and pay) for a sea trial together with an independent, qualified engineer checking ALL available engine data and sailing the boat WOT ...
Based on the report of the sea trial we will make final descisions.

I will keep you informed and I value all the great information I have got from your discussion points.

It is unlikely that you will be able to get a survey and sea trial without having made an offer that is acceptable and paid a deposit. By all means carry out your visual inspection based on your checklist and a review of the paperwork including the seller's description. Your offer is based on this and the contract requires the seller to make the boat available for the survey and sea trial which check that the boat is as described.

 

[MapisM]

Additional legal question:
What (paper, certificate, contract ...) is the legal proof of ownership after done the purchase of the boat in Italy ?
Is there some "official" paper or "receipt" from the owner after payment?

Yes, that's the so-called "Licenza di Navigazione".
Not only this document shows the current and the previous owners starting from the first registration (unless the boat changed flag at some stage in between), but it also shows liens on the boat, if any.
In fact, if a lien exists but wasn't transcribed on the Licenza di Navigazione, it would be null and not enforceable.
So, ad maiora, not transferrable to the buyer - hence irrelevant from your viewpoint.

Ref. the formalization upon payment, the transcription of the new owner on the above document takes a bit of time, so it can't be done simultaneously with the payment, and there are usually other steps in between in order to be sure to be the new owner, while the transfer is being formalized.
But as I recall you said that you have a lawyer in the family, so I'm not going to teach him/her how to suck eggs!

 

[Portofino]

Additional legal question:

What (paper, certificate, contract ...) is the legal proof of ownership after done the purchase of the boat in Italy ?
Is there some "official" paper or "receipt" from the owner after payment?

When it’s finished you get a blue book ( or modern eq ) which shows who owns it .
Your seller should keep it on the boat as Guardia Finanza often do checks .
In the intermediate transition your broker will get you a kinda in between doc from the boats reg authorities you keep the original blue book if sailing away . Eventually you have to return the blue book for the original owner to de register the flag .
They call it “ irradiation of the flag “ who pays depends it’s a few hundred € in port fees .

Being a none Italian national , having no Italian address and fiscal code means you can’t keep the IT flag .

Other s will fill in the correct terminology of the bits of paper .

The broker will hold your hand through the process .

 

[Seastoke]

He never mentioned having a lift.

 

[Skipper Felice]

It is unlikely that you will be able to get a survey and sea trial without having made an offer that is acceptable and paid a deposit. By all means carry out your visual inspection based on your checklist and a review of the paperwork including the seller's description. Your offer is based on this and the contract requires the seller to make the boat available for the survey and sea trial which check that the boat is as described.

YES ... thats the plan. .... What do you think should the first deposit be for a selling offer / transaction price of around EUR 350k ?