Buying a Seagull

[ianc1200]

I'd add go for the bronze flywheel type, as they were later (post 67'?) and had easier to replace points/condenser etc. Get one with an oval brass tank, but specially not the steel ones which have a lip around the middle & rust.
The 2nd WW ones (& I assume all 102's) are much sought after as constructed in bronze rather than steel.

IanC

 

[Ubergeekian]

Someone will come up very shortly on this thread to say theirs has run perfectly for 40 years and is the best thing since sliced bread. The rest of us know better, and know that Seagulls just do not measure up to engines designed in the last 10 - 15 years on almost every score.

Longevity. Let's see how your modern outboard is doing in twenty years' time, shall we? I replaced a Seagull 40D witha Yamaha 4 which worked beautifully and reliably. For five years.

But if you are happy to: leave an oil trail every time you cross the harbour;

Wave abatement

wear ear protection while using it

Incentive to use those flappy white things on the big stick thing.

put up with the much lower thrust (in spite of those whopping great propellors!);

The Yamaha 4 drove the Jouster a little faster than the 40D. The Silver Century I use now is substantially faster, for roughly the same fuel consumption. A little more oil, I grant you, but see above. And remember that a Silver Century is only about 1hp (when tested).

happy to have oil/petrol dripping all over the car boot when you take it home;

Not a problem if you remember to close the bleed valve and fuel valve, and run the carb dry.

One of their more pernicious habits is refusing to start if the leg is immersed too deep.

Not a problem I have ever had.

 

[Tranona]

Lots of things the military used in 1944 which they wouldn't use now because they've been superceded by better kit. Tin hats, leather boots, bolt action rifles, radio sets the size of suitcases, webbing, gas capes, PIATs, bren gun carriers, 15cwt trucks, Sherman tanks, etc. Sure, most of those things would still work, if well maintained for sixty years, but why bother?

The post was made not as an endorsement (because the Seagulls we use are only distantly related to the 102) but to correct an error. As you say many things were used by the military that are of little use now, but the more "modern" Seagulls stand or fall on their usefulness - which as we see for some people is very good!

 

[Ubergeekian]

40+ with a clutch is best, but rarer, unclutched models are fine for sea use.

I used a 40D (unclutched) to go through the Crinan Canal lots of times. Needs careful judgment, but if you know your boat well enough ...

 

[Ubergeekian]

ONLY SERIOUSLY DERRANGED PEOPLE BUY OLD SEAGULLS, YOU CAN'T GET AT THE C.B. POINTS WHEN THEY CORRODE, WITHOUT REMOVING THE FLYWHEEL

Put to bottom dead centre. Slacken dome nut. Get friend to lift engine by flywheel. Tap dome nut once with hammer. Remove dome nut. Lift off flywheel. Elapsed time, sixty seconds if you're still learning.

 

[TamarMike]

Thieves like a nice modern outboard to steal, and will not give the Seagull a second glance

My Silver Century got nicked, even though the head was just loose on top as I was (unsucessfully) trying to unblock the waterways

 

[Seanick]

Put to bottom dead centre. Slacken dome nut. Get friend to lift engine by flywheel. Tap dome nut once with hammer. Remove dome nut. Lift off flywheel. Elapsed time, sixty seconds if you're still learning.

Absolutley!

No issues with economy. My featherweight always starts. My Century (1951) is quiet at half throttle. However, my '63 9 1/2 Johnson is quieter. All old engines, all stay on the tenders, no need to insure them, or worry about them either.

They ecourage JUDGEMENT and SKILL to turn off the fuel just in time, so the carb is empty as you arrive at the slipway. Sticking your finger in the carb to stop it can be timed to perfection. Stop buttons are for big girls! Thank god Elf n' saftey can't stop you playing with a spinning flywheel (I can start mine without a string) and you learn not to touch the hot bits!

Its a lot faster than rowing, as I have a mile to go to the mooring.

 

[Seanick]

My Silver Century got nicked, even though the head was just loose on top as I was (unsucessfully) trying to unblock the waterways

I have a spare if you would like one.....!

 

[Fire99]

I love the old seagull motors but sadly time has moved on a long way.
My 2001 ish Mariner 2.5 is simple but it's light, starts 1st pull, has an integral plastic fuel tank and uses about a teaspoon of fuel per trip. Not to mention I think the pre-mix for it is about 100:1 so even expensive 2-stroke oil doesn't work out expensive.

Things like CDI ignition/fuel tap and a motor that drops nothing in the car regardless how it's stored are a definite bonus not to mention an impellar that can be inspected/ replaced in about 10 minutes.
A full carb strip and reassemble is about 30 mins.

Compared to their peers about 50 years ago, Seagulls are great but everything has moved on and IMO you can have all the benefits with a fraction of the hassle with a late model 2-stroke Jap motor.

 

[Seanick]

I love the old seagull motors but sadly time has moved on a long way.
My 2001 ish Mariner 2.5 is simple but it's light, starts 1st pull, has an integral plastic fuel tank and uses about a teaspoon of fuel per trip. Not to mention I think the pre-mix for it is about 100:1 so even expensive 2-stroke oil doesn't work out expensive.

Mine starts 1st pull too!
50:1 so twice the oil, but not much per year...

Things like CDI ignition/fuel tap and a motor that drops nothing in the car regardless how it's stored

Yes, my Seagull has CDI........and a recoil starter.......

are a definite bonus not to mention an impellar that can be inspected/ replaced in about 10 minutes.

seagulls don't have rubber impellors, just a vane that does not touch the pump sides, and therefore does not wear.

A full carb strip and reassemble is about 30 mins.

I reckon 30 seconds for a Segull carb, not that it needs it that often.

Compared to their peers about 50 years ago, Seagulls are great but everything has moved on and IMO you can have all the benefits with a fraction of the hassle with a late model 2-stroke Jap motor.

However, I do leave it in the boat, or on the tender, and not in the car, where I agree they are an oily mess!

 

[TamarMike]

I have a spare if you would like one.....!

Unfortunately I no longer have the boat I used to use it on...

I wish I did as it would be a great boat for the kids to learn on now. The Seagull was ideal for that boat (fixed straight ahead and used with the rudder) but wouldn't want little fingers near that flywheel if I still had it.

 

[Lakesailor]

They have their place....

 

[Seanick]

Unfortunately I no longer have the boat I used to use it on...

I wish I did as it would be a great boat for the kids to learn on now. The Seagull was ideal for that boat (fixed straight ahead and used with the rudder) but wouldn't want little fingers near that flywheel if I still had it.

Mike you seem to sell all your nice boats......!

Just going to say that my Dad let me loose on his Seagull when I was about 6 ish and I still have most of my fingers!

 

[Fire99]

They have their place....

Certainly something rather charming about the little chaps.

 

[NUTMEG]

Hmm

A good mate of mine reckons Gulls make good anchors. However my house has just been broken into to steal two of mine so some people love them! I have enjoyed this thread and have this to offer, comments about removing heads and changing impellors are misguided cos you do not ever need to do either on a Gull. Impellors do not contact anywhere so never wear out and they do not need decoking either. Points if fitted are changed without removing the flywheel but in practise hardly ever need changing, just a quick clean every ten years or so. Later models like mine were have plastic tanks and CDI, are neither thirsty nor hard to start. I have found that chaps that do not know a spanner from a their elbows tend to hate them, chaps that enjoy a but of DIY and like tinkering with a classic love them. I reckon series 1 Landrovers, 2CV's and Seagulls are fun to own and I appreciate such things as having a little character and 'soul', something no Yammy, Toyota or Honda can offer. And I miss my two Gulls, sob sob...

 

[Ken_Irby]

I ret my case!!!!!!!!

Put to bottom dead centre. Slacken dome nut. Get friend to lift engine by flywheel. Tap dome nut once with hammer. Remove dome nut. Lift off flywheel. Elapsed time, sixty seconds if you're still learning.

My flywheel isn't as easy as that to get off. WOW! I don't really care since my OB doesn't have anything as antiquated as contact breaker points!
Chas

 

[Ken_Irby]

And......

Absolutley!

No issues with economy. My featherweight always starts. My Century (1951) is quiet at half throttle. However, my '63 9 1/2 Johnson is quieter. All old engines, all stay on the tenders, no need to insure them, or worry about them either.

They ecourage JUDGEMENT and SKILL to turn off the fuel just in time, so the carb is empty as you arrive at the slipway. Sticking your finger in the carb to stop it can be timed to perfection. Stop buttons are for big girls! Thank god Elf n' saftey can't stop you playing with a spinning flywheel (I can start mine without a string) and you learn not to touch the hot bits!

Its a lot faster than rowing, as I have a mile to go to the mooring.

Where do you go to get your Morris Oxford de-rusted?
Chas

 

[duncanmack]

I love the old seagull motors but sadly time has moved on a long way.
My 2001 ish Mariner 2.5 is simple but it's light, starts 1st pull, has an integral plastic fuel tank and uses about a teaspoon of fuel per trip. Not to mention I think the pre-mix for it is about 100:1 so even expensive 2-stroke oil doesn't work out expensive.

Things like CDI ignition/fuel tap and a motor that drops nothing in the car regardless how it's stored are a definite bonus not to mention an impellar that can be inspected/ replaced in about 10 minutes.
A full carb strip and reassemble is about 30 mins.

Compared to their peers about 50 years ago, Seagulls are great but everything has moved on and IMO you can have all the benefits with a fraction of the hassle with a late model 2-stroke Jap motor.

But if yours breaks down can you fix it with no more than your hands, teeth, a "cartoon" pair of pincers and a 10 euro note? Eh?

 

[oldharry]

"Someone will come up very shortly on this thread to say theirs has run perfectly for 40 years and is the best thing since sliced bread."

Funny how boating opinion divides between nostalgia and practicality. Seagull engine debates are always lively and full of contradictory advice, and I am now sure that OP is even more confused than when he first asked!

It boils down to:
Noisy? - I think most of us agree they are not quiet.

Reliability? - 50/50. If you have a good Seagull you swear by it. If yours is a bad one, you swear at it.

Oily? well nobody actually said they are not. Some people even see that as a positive benefit to the environment.

High thrust? Well, one man seems to be running his Century on Nitro. PBO many years ago did a test of then available dinghy Outboards, and the 40/40+'s came out bottom for pulling power. I think I'd better re-phrase that for Lakey!

Theft? well some of them do get nicked. As they are worth less than most Insurance company excesses, they probably dont get reported so often.

Vibration? well we obviously have some around here who like seeing double......

Messy? No one has actually dared deny this one..... must take precautions that are not needed with modern engines.

Easy to fix? Basic engineering means maintenance is straighforward and usually gets done in the dinghy with nothing but a pair of pliers. Otherwise - no they are not because they use mild steel fastenings which are by now solid. And flywheels may come off in the way described - or not! All the ones I dealt with come in the second category.

Viability? Lots of confusion here between nostalgia and practicality. A good one does go on forever - if you can start it! Technically the difference is that Gulls are cast iron which lasts very well. Alloys used in newer engines does not mix with seawater. Also the Gull crankcase has phosphor bronze main bearing bushes sealed by the oil in the fuel. Modern engines have conventional bearings with lipped rubber oil seals. These fail after a while and the engine becomes difficult to start. As the cost of stripping and replacing them is high the engine gets scrapped.

My avatar could be a quote from the Seagull owners manual......

AND PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THE ADVICE FROM THE SOS SITE: DONT RUN THEM AT 50:1 MIX

 

[Fire99]

But if yours breaks down can you fix it with no more than your hands, teeth, a "cartoon" pair of pincers and a 10 euro note? Eh?

Ummm no. Just after stone-henge was constructed man invented these handy little odd shaped ditties. After a while they decided to call them Tools!