buying a company registered boat

[Hurricane]

is it better to re register in the uk and have the red ensign? can i do that if i dont live in the uk , i am british and have a company in the uk but no residential address as i live in taiwan . what do you need to register in the uk?

Jfm - can you help

So many conversations on these forums turn out to be a lot of hot air but this guy seems to be genuine and in need of help.

As far as I can see, being British, he should make sure that the boat sold to him, personally, and is fully (European) VAT paid and then register the boat on the British Ship Register. I believe that the boat will then be regarded as British and come under UK rules (laws?). Being British, this means that he could sail the boat under a simple ICC qualification. When entering foreign ports, he would only need his British passport, British ship registration cert and some form of insurance certificate.

I don't think the fact that he lives in Taiwan matters. He might need an address for the British Ship registration to send correspondence but maybe his company has an address in the UK that he could use,

IMO, he definitely should NOT register the boat in his company's name.

Jfm - what do you think

 

[squadron]

Jfm - can you help

So many conversations on these forums turn out to be a lot of hot air but this guy seems to be genuine and in need of help.

As far as I can see, being British, he should make sure that the boat sold to him, personally, and is fully (European) VAT paid and then register the boat on the British Ship Register. I believe that the boat will then be regarded as British and come under UK rules (laws?). Being British, this means that he could sail the boat under a simple ICC qualification. When entering foreign ports, he would only need his British passport, British ship registration cert and some form of insurance certificate.

I don't think the fact that he lives in Taiwan matters. He might need an address for the British Ship registration to send correspondence but maybe his company has an address in the UK that he could use,

IMO, he definitely should NOT register the boat in his company's name.

Jfm - what do you think

no i dont want to register in my company name , just want to know what is required , of course i can use my company address or my parents address if need be . oh and yes i will only have an icc , so does that mean the boat will definitely have to be uk flagged ?

thanks
david

 

[Tranona]

no i dont want to register in my company name , just want to know what is required , of course i can use my company address or my parents address if need be . oh and yes i will only have an icc , so does that mean the boat will definitely have to be uk flagged ?

thanks
david

The ICC is nothing to do with the registration of the boat. There is no requirement to hold any qualification to use a British registered pleasure boat. The main reason for having an ICC is that some countries ask to see evidence of competence when you are in their waters, although it is unclear whether they can apply any sanctions if you can't. It also makes chartering a boat in some countries easier as there may be a requirement to demonstrate competence to skipper a locally flagged boat - Croatia and Greece are examples. It is also a requirement if you want to take your own boat into many parts of the European inland waterway system.

As to where you register your boat that will depend on your circumstances and your (or your comapny's if you decide to go down that route) eligibility. You will be able to register on the British Part 1 register as I think from what you have said, you could be eligible. Part 3 is not open as you are not a UK resident.

Part 1 is the obvious route, assuming you can meet the requirements of the ownership history of the boat required by the registrar and get the measurement survey done. You can get details of the requirements for Part 1 registration from the MCA website.

 

[jfm]

Jfm - can you help

So many conversations on these forums turn out to be a lot of hot air but this guy seems to be genuine and in need of help.

As far as I can see, being British, he should make sure that the boat sold to him, personally, and is fully (European) VAT paid and then register the boat on the British Ship Register. I believe that the boat will then be regarded as British and come under UK rules (laws?). Being British, this means that he could sail the boat under a simple ICC qualification. When entering foreign ports, he would only need his British passport, British ship registration cert and some form of insurance certificate.

I don't think the fact that he lives in Taiwan matters. He might need an address for the British Ship registration to send correspondence but maybe his company has an address in the UK that he could use,

IMO, he definitely should NOT register the boat in his company's name.

Jfm - what do you think

I agree Hurricane. A few further points:

1. Squadron as a non EU resident you could (but see 2 below) take advantage of the temporary import 18months into EU that you mentioned, to avoid VAT. To achieve that outcome you'd have to do several things including driving the boat 12.1 miles from the spanish coast to complete the purchase (which is common with TI boats and some brokers will understand). But that would be daft thing to do given that the boat is already VAT paid. You'd lose the VAT paid status, thus devaluing the boat. So don't do it.

2. Buy the boat when it is physically in the EU. Keep proof. Then it retains VAT paid status

3. By the sound of it you are elgibile for UK part 1 registration but not SSR. Part 1 seems a good way to go. You can then legally drive the boat without a licence (unless overriden by a local harbour law somewhere) but I wouldn't recommend doing that becuase an ICC will make for an easier life overseas and is generally a good idea anyway

4. IIRC though i haven't checked, you need a UK service address for part 1 reg, ie an agent to whom MCA can send correspondence. This could be the UK company owned by Squadron

5. It's also possible to have the boat owned by the UK company, but without understanding the company's activity/taxes etc and Squadron's employment status etc with it I cannot say if this idea makes sense.

6. It is also possible to register the boat in the (or another) company's name and have a deed of bare trust to say the company holds the boat as mere nominee for squadron who is personally the beneficial owner. This can have advantages in France if the boat is coded (ie cheaper fuel but without corresponding BIK taxes in UK for someone resident in UK or employed by a UK co). Again, hard to say more on a forum without knowing lots of personal detial

Without all the detial on Squadron's personal circs it isn't feasible to type more than this. Owning the boat personally as a part 1 UK reg ship makes fiarly good sense imho, from the info we have at least. And losing the VAT paid status by choosing to use TI would be daft

 

[squadron]

jfm thank you , part 1 does seem ok , are there people available who specialise in doing all the documentation ? or is this a job for the marine lawyer ? also could i leave it on a spanish flag and just change the ownership?is that allowed ? or are there many reason not to ?

many thanks
david

 

[Nautorius]

Hi Squadron,

I bought my Yacht in a similar way. This is how I remember it 3 years ago and I decided to get the Seller to do all the Hard work and not risk dealing with the purchase of a company. I had him delist the boat from 7th Lista (Commercial) to 6th lista (Private) by selling himself the boat from the company. During this process any commercial boat will have a Tax assesment. When new my boat had IVA paid on it which was then claimed back so although they had a IVA(VAT) paid bill, which I saw.....it was not IVA Paid as the company had got this back after purchase. The Company was then responsible for paying the IVA on a valuation agreed with the authorities prior to acceptance on the 6th List. I would not have known it was not IVA paid and would have accepted the Factura as proof when it had been superseed by another factura. I then had them delist her from the 6th Lista on the day of purchase and I put her on SSR. Then I applied for Part One.

Took a few more weeks but I had piece of mind. In the current climate I would ask your broker to help arrange. The IVA did not matter vto me as I am a non-Eu VAT resident but it helps on resale!

Hope I remembered that all correctly!

Paul

 

[jfm]

jfm thank you , part 1 does seem ok , are there people available who specialise in doing all the documentation ? or is this a job for the marine lawyer ? also could i leave it on a spanish flag and just change the ownership?is that allowed ? or are there many reason not to ?

many thanks
david

Marine lawyers and registration agents do the part 1 paperwork for you if you want, or a good yacht broker can do it, or you can diy. It isn't difficult. In this case you will need a certificate of deletion from the spanish register

You could leave it on the Spanish register with you as owner, IF they will accept a resident of Taiwan. I don't know if they will. I wouldn't keep a boat on the spanish register, because I'd be scared of some random Spanish tax imposed on the boat - the Spanish specialise in this

It gets a bit nervy here advising people without knowing all their circs, and i don't know yours, so please tread carefully. For example using the UK part 1 register causes your boat to be a UK situs asset, which could conflict with your inheritance tax planning strategy. I simply don't know, and it would be too longwinded to type it all out here. So tread carefully and do the right thing within your whole-life asset planning, if you see what I mean

 

[squadron]

Hi Squadron,

I bought my Yacht in a similar way. This is how I remember it 3 years ago and I decided to get the Seller to do all the Hard work and not risk dealing with the purchase of a company. I had him delist the boat from 7th Lista (Commercial) to 6th lista (Private) by selling himself the boat from the company. During this process any commercial boat will have a Tax assesment. When new my boat had IVA paid on it which was then claimed back so although they had a IVA(VAT) paid bill, which I saw.....it was not IVA Paid as the company had got this back after purchase. The Company was then responsible for paying the IVA on a valuation agreed with the authorities prior to acceptance on the 6th List. I would not have known it was not IVA paid and would have accepted the Factura as proof when it had been superseed by another factura. I then had them delist her from the 6th Lista on the day of purchase and I put her on SSR. Then I applied for Part One.

Took a few more weeks but I had piece of mind. In the current climate I would ask your broker to help arrange. The IVA did not matter vto me as I am a non-Eu VAT resident but it helps on resale!

Hope I remembered that all correctly!

Paul

thanks paul, thats quite interesting , it does make you wonder if the seller will actually hand over the vat that you pay him , but i dont think that makes a difference if you have a seperate vat reciept , the boat is still vat paid and the vat he owes to spanish revenue is between his company and spanish customs . one of the things i was wondering is why you changed the flag from spanish to uk ensign ? which is what i want to do, but dont know if i have to , or were you just being patriotic? .

thanks
david

 

[Tranona]

jfm thank you , part 1 does seem ok , are there people available who specialise in doing all the documentation ? or is this a job for the marine lawyer ? also could i leave it on a spanish flag and just change the ownership?is that allowed ? or are there many reason not to ?

many thanks
david

You can either do it yourself, or normally the broker would arrange it. Don't think you can keep a boat on the Spanish register, so it will need de-registering, which is the responsibility of the vendor.

When you read the requirements for Part 1 you will find you need an agent in the UK and you will need to get together the documentation required to show title. This should be no problem as you would expect to see the same evidence of title before you buy the boat. You will need a measurement survey by an MCA approved surveyor. It makes sense to use a UK recognised surveyor to do both the prepurchase and measurement survey. You will also find this may may help when you are getting insurance.

BTW there are advantages of Part 1 over other registers. For example there are minimal maintenance costs - just a 5 year renewal cost £55. Some other registers require regular full surveys and defined equipment requirements. The latter is usually not a big issue as most of the equipment you would have anyway, but a 5 year survey is a big cost.

 

[squadron]

Marine lawyers and registration agents do the part 1 paperwork for you if you want, or a good yacht broker can do it, or you can diy. It isn't difficult. In this case you will need a certificate of deletion from the spanish register

You could leave it on the Spanish register with you as owner, IF they will accept a resident of Taiwan. I don't know if they will. I wouldn't keep a boat on the spanish register, because I'd be scared of some random Spanish tax imposed on the boat - the Spanish specialise in this

It gets a bit nervy here advising people without knowing all their circs, and i don't know yours, so please tread carefully. For example using the UK part 1 register causes your boat to be a UK situs asset, which could conflict with your inheritance tax planning strategy. I simply don't know, and it would be too longwinded to type it all out here. So tread carefully and do the right thing within your whole-life asset planning, if you see what I mean

thank you jfm. do you think i will have trouble with the insurance too?

david

 

[squadron]

You can either do it yourself, or normally the broker would arrange it. Don't think you can keep a boat on the Spanish register, so it will need de-registering, which is the responsibility of the vendor.

When you read the requirements for Part 1 you will find you need an agent in the UK and you will need to get together the documentation required to show title. This should be no problem as you would expect to see the same evidence of title before you buy the boat. You will need a measurement survey by an MCA approved surveyor. It makes sense to use a UK recognised surveyor to do both the prepurchase and measurement survey. You will also find this may may help when you are getting insurance.

BTW there are advantages of Part 1 over other registers. For example there are minimal maintenance costs - just a 5 year renewal cost £55. Some other registers require regular full surveys and defined equipment requirements. The latter is usually not a big issue as most of the equipment you would have anyway, but a 5 year survey is a big cost.

great advice , thanks , do you know of any good mca approved surveyors in the alicante area ?

thanks
david

 

[Hurricane]

great advice , thanks , do you know of any good mca approved surveyors in the alicante area ?

thanks
david

Dennis will help, I'm sure but I don't think he is qualified to do it himself - might be wrong though.

BTW - the Part 1 registration is really easy - just give them a call - they are really helpful and will tell you exactly what to do.
Their address is at the bottom of this page.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Boatingandtravellingbywater/PleasureCraft/DG_180594

There are also some useful links on this page to forms etc

 

[squadron]

Dennis will help, I'm sure but I don't think he is qualified to do it himself - might be wrong though.

BTW - the Part 1 registration is really easy - just give them a call - they are really helpful and will tell you exactly what to do.
Their address is at the bottom of this page.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Boatingandtravellingbywater/PleasureCraft/DG_180594

There are also some useful links on this page to forms etc

ok thanks for that, dennis is down at the boat this friday , so fingers crossed .

thanks for all your help
david

 

[jfm]

thank you jfm. do you think i will have trouble with the insurance too?

david

In my exp at least, the big insurers do not weight the risk according to where the boat is flagged. So long as it is a sensible recognised register they are happy, so UK/Spain/others should all be the same in insurer's eyes, I'd expect. if others have experienced a different answer they will chip in no doubt

 

[squadron]

In my exp at least, the big insurers do not weight the risk according to where the boat is flagged. So long as it is a sensible recognised register they are happy, so UK/Spain/others should all be the same in insurer's eyes, I'd expect. if others have experienced a different answer they will chip in no doubt

ok, i just thought that not being eu resident might throw a spanner in the works...hope not

thanks
david

 

[Tranona]

great advice , thanks , do you know of any good mca approved surveyors in the alicante area ?

thanks
david

Not sure there are any living in that area. Most of the british surveyors are based in Mallorca.

Their main professional body is www.ydsa.co.uk and they have a list of members. Worth contacting them. Also some IIMS surveyors are MCA measurers. You might find it useful on such a large and costly boat to get a UK based surveyor out to do the job. Many will do that, more a question of finding one with the expertise that you have confidence in.

 

[EME]

ok, i just thought that not being eu resident might throw a spanner in the works...hope not

thanks
david

Not being EU resident (eg Switzerland) has no effect on insurance on a Pt1 registered boat.

 

[squadron]

Not being EU resident (eg Switzerland) has no effect on insurance on a Pt1 registered boat.

thats good news , one less thing to worry about.

many thanks
david

 

[squadron]

Not sure there are any living in that area. Most of the british surveyors are based in Mallorca.

Their main professional body is www.ydsa.co.uk and they have a list of members. Worth contacting them. Also some IIMS surveyors are MCA measurers. You might find it useful on such a large and costly boat to get a UK based surveyor out to do the job. Many will do that, more a question of finding one with the expertise that you have confidence in.

i will take a look ,thank you for all your help.

david

 

[Nautorius]

jfm thank you , part 1 does seem ok , are there people available who specialise in doing all the documentation ? or is this a job for the marine lawyer ? also could i leave it on a spanish flag and just change the ownership?is that allowed ? or are there many reason not to ?

many thanks
david

Hi David,

Lack of trust in the Spanish Tax Authorities I am afraid.....prefer a UK flagged boat or at least a British Ensign Flagged Vessel!

Paul