buying a centaur

rogerball0 said:
Its almost criminal what these boats go for now. I guess it reflects the times we're in and the age of the boats. I follow a couple of on-line brokerages concerning Westerly values and its interesting to see the later Dubois designs taking quite a tumble in price but thinking about it they're now 25 years old. The Giles era designs are going for peanuts especially the big stuff, from memory there was a Centaur on Lake Windermere that went for £2000 end of last year and a Longbow on ebay for £10500 couple of years back and that was a 1980 boat so right place right time does play a part.

From my own experience of building a new Centaur most of these older boats, unless fastidiously maintained are slowly becoming worthless because of the costs of replacing things, i did £600 last week on a propshaft, pss shaft seal, a new bronze fitting for the stern tube and a half coupling for the new engine add the cost of the engine and a bloke to fit it and you will spend at least £5000.

I totally agree with the sentiments above, go and have a look at a few to get a feel for specs and condition and you wont come unstuck.

Happy hunting

cheers rog

www.agentlemansyacht.com
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Many Centaurs have been well looked after and have had engines and much other gear replaced by now. The costs you quote above are no different to similar work on more modern boats, which entail a much higher initial outlay.

Centaurs and their bigger brothers Berwicks are very strong sea kindly boats and, having owned both, I know from experience they are more likely to be accepted by a wife who isn't interested in racing or being bounced around in a more modern lighter and less seaworthy design. I'm not surprised that many have done Biscay and longer passages, some even circum navigations.
 
VicMallows said:
I am always curious that so many boats which are clearly worth less than £10k live in marinas with fees of at least £3k per annum. Genuinely interested if anyone who is in that position can explain their logic.
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Maybe look at it the other way round and the answer is obvious ... why can so many people who use marinas not afford a bigger boat?
 
£7k is sadly way over priced for a Centaur with a Bukh 10hp; that's a loud lump of iron that will be reliable but underpowered, noisy, drip oil, vibrate your fillings out and one day need replacing. £8k will get you a near perfect peach that's been advertised for £11k. £5.5 max will get you the one you're talking about.
 
"The costs you quote above are no different to similar work on more modern boats, which entail a much higher initial outlay".

You've answered my question, for if you've spent £60k on your modern boat chances are its still going to be worth somewhere in that region, therefore spending £5k for a new engines not much of a stretch however £5k's worth of engine on a boat thats worth, what £8- 10k doesn't make much sense at all. I just don't think (long term) regardless of how popular the Centaur and other boats of that ilk are , the cost of maintaining one will become prohibitive to them being on the water in the numbers they are today. Don't get me wrong I love Westerly's but only because i'm an enthusiast with a screw loose, thats why i've poured many times more money into mine than its worth. I just dont think you'll find many people like me in the future thats all.


roger
 
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rogerball0 said:
...however £5k's worth of engine on a boat thats worth, what £8- 10k doesn't make much sense at all.
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But the dilemma is, if you own a boat worth 7-8K and the engine dies, what are your choices? Buy a new engine (or a secondhand one), knowing that you'll never get the outlay back? Sell the boat as a "project" on eBay, hoping to attract dreamers?
 
rogerball0 said:
"The costs you quote above are no different to similar work on more modern boats, which entail a much higher initial outlay".

You've answered my question, for if you've spent £60k on your modern boat chances are its still going to be worth somewhere in that region, therefore spending £5k for a new engines not much of a stretch however £5k's worth of engine on a boat thats worth, what £8- 10k doesn't make much sense at all. roger
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You forget that even a £1k boat may well be someone's "dream boat". Most people can't afford the ideal and may not want to go into debt to buy something better.
 
I think you're stuck between a rock and a hard place in that instance pvb, but the thread relates to purchasing a boat secondhand and its these (prohibitive) costs that once factored in is the reason i believe these first generation glass boats will meet the chainsaw in ever greater numbers. Just had a look on ebay - the number of projects and boats for sale is incredible, its that that keeps me going, well that and the old man shaking his head at me if ever i had to explain to him what i did to his boat having sold it unfinished.
 
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I don't think the Centaur counts as ' first generation grp boat ', that would be the Westerly 22 & 25.

In it's way it did a bit to revolutionise sailing for the ( more ) common man though.
 
V1701 said:
To the OP, why restrict yourself to one make & model? There's loads of boats out there & it's a buyers market...
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At the very least widen to Macwester 27/28 and a Snapdragon of similar length, all as roomy as a Centaur and the Mac is a touch better sailer, don't go to the Macwester 26, lovely floating caravan and a truely awful sailer :)
 
rogerball0 said:
I just don't think (long term) regardless of how popular the Centaur and other boats of that ilk are , the cost of maintaining one will become prohibitive to them being on the water in the numbers they are today.
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If you're going to pay for all maintenance then yes, of course. If you do it yourself the numbers look much better. At least old Westerlys are a solid base into which to put one's time, unlike flimsy modern rubbish such as [name withheld], [name withheld] or, of course [name withheld] boats.
 
pvb said:
But the dilemma is, if you own a boat worth 7-8K and the engine dies, what are your choices? Buy a new engine (or a secondhand one), knowing that you'll never get the outlay back? Sell the boat as a "project" on eBay, hoping to attract dreamers?
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Unless you are planning to sell the boat, its value is irrelevant to the decision. So is anything you've spent on it so far, unless you want to defy the sunk costs fallacy (GIYF). Sure, it probably isn't going to make to money if you pay someone to put a new engine in and sell the boat at once, but even that is not necessarily a bad deal if you keep the boat another five years. And it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new boat, or a five year old boat, that doesn't need a new engine.
 
rogerball0 said:
I think you're stuck between a rock and a hard place in that instance pvb, but the thread relates to purchasing a boat secondhand and its these (prohibitive) costs that once factored in is the reason i believe these first generation glass boats will meet the chainsaw in ever greater numbers.
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The costs aren't necessarily prohibitive, if you compare them with the costs of buying something newer. Five grand for an old boat and five grand for a new engine is still less than fifteen grand for a newer boat.
 
I agree too.

For many years, and many boats, I fretted over getting my money back.

The cure was to buy a quality wooden boat, a boat which was hand made by craftsmen fifty years ago, a boat built in materials completely unavailable now, a boat which - if commissioned today - would cost hundreds of thousands of pounds to build to the same standards.

I treat her as a piece of furniture, an historic memento of times long past, I am her custodian, her lover, her guardian until I leave this mortal coil and pass her on to somebody smitten with the same desire for tradition and heritage.

In the meantime, any offers before she goes on eBay?
 
history38 said:
Thanks everyone for their previous help.
Still after more advice sorry.
Have just viewed centaur which i think could poss be the one. 1973 model good survey report Iam told from last year,
Has new mast rigging and boom,head lining done plus the usual things to keels.
Has a new engine or should i say new to boat,its a bukh 10 took a bit to start but when did sounded sweet, must add it hadn't been ran for six month.
Asking price 7500.
thoughts please
Thanks in anticipation.
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10hp is less than you'd choose nowadays for an engine, but its enough given that its already there.
as othrs have said 23hp was overkill but westerly got a deal on that engine.
The Bukh has no cold start gadgetry, like some engines have, so it can take some turning, but keep a squirty can of engine oil handy and give it 3 shots into the intake with the decompression open (to let it fall) and it will start quite readily (undo the decompressor!)

Good luck if you go for it, boats are not investments at this end of the market, buy it as a toy and write it off in your mind.

A bukh 10 owner.
 
chewi said:
The Bukh has no cold start gadgetry, like some engines have, so it can take some turning, but keep a squirty can of engine oil handy and give it 3 shots into the intake .
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Some will shoot me down in flames, but in mid-winter a whiff of ether (EesyStart or similar) will have my BUKH started in seconds rather than prolonged cranking -which doesn't do anything any good- ... and certainly leaves you with a depleted battery.
 
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