Buying a boat - sorting out Part 1 registration

[Cardo]

Ei up all again!

So we've just boat our old gal.
Now comes the fun of registration. She is currently registered Part 3 by the previous owner. However, she was registered Part 1 by the previous owner to him. The Part 1 registration has since lapsed.

I've been reading up this page - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Boatingandtravellingbywater/PleasureCraft/DG_180557
and I was looking at the fees. I'm trying to work out how much it would cost us to re-register her on the Part 1 register.
Registering from fresh is £124. However, changing ownership is £80 (plus £15 for subsequent bills of sail, so would be £95 for us.) However, a renewal of a lapsed registration is £49.

So, which of these would we have to pay? Would it be the £95 for change of ownership and would this then renew the registration? Or would the renewal fee come into it as this has lapsed? If this is the case, would we then simply go with the £124 and create a new registration?

Any advice from someone who has had to do it or knows the system would be appreciated.

Also, we're looking to change the boat's name. Would it be cheaper to change the name at time of registration, or does it make no difference? (Fee for change of name or port is £37)

Cheers!

 

[clyst]

I'v recently been involved much the same . The costs are £124 ish to re register if the pt1 has lapsed but heres the bu88er factor .!!------- The boat will have to be re-measured by a "qualified measuring" surveyor !! I'm back with pt3 now . Hope this helps

 

[Cardo]

I'v recently been involved much the same . The costs are £124 ish to re register if the pt1 has lapsed but heres the bu88er factor .!!------- The boat will have to be re-measured by a "qualified measuring" surveyor !! I'm back with pt3 now . Hope this helps

The very helpful surveyor who carried out my pre-purchase survey is providing me with the required measurement document for Part 1 registration.

 

[jwilson]

The very helpful surveyor who carried out my pre-purchase survey is providing me with the required measurement document for Part 1 registration.

Speak nicely to the Registry - depending on how long the old Part I has lapsed for you may just get away without a new "tonnage survey". Otherwise you will need this, and the fee is normally a fixed scale of charges. It's only tape-measurements, and some fairly simple calculations, giving a theoretical "tonnage" but you can't do it yourself.

 

[nigelmercier]

Also, we're looking to change the boat's name. Would it be cheaper to change the name at time of registration...

It may not be cheaper, but much less hassle. Talk to the MCA about your options, but expect a 3-month delay after sending the forms

 

[Maxi_10]

I recently did a change of ownership on a part 1.

Sent the forms off on 4th August 2011 and got the certificate back on the 18th August.

I also sent the wrong fee £124 and they returned the excess £44, couldn't have been more helpful or efficient.

If I were you I would phone them. 029 2044 8800

 

[Bilgediver]

Ei up all again!

So we've just boat our old gal.
Now comes the fun of registration. She is currently registered Part 3 by the previous owner. However, she was registered Part 1 by the previous owner to him. The Part 1 registration has since lapsed.

I've been reading up this page - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Boatingandtravellingbywater/PleasureCraft/DG_180557
and I was looking at the fees. I'm trying to work out how much it would cost us to re-register her on the Part 1 register.
Registering from fresh is £124. However, changing ownership is £80 (plus £15 for subsequent bills of sail, so would be £95 for us.) However, a renewal of a lapsed registration is £49.

So, which of these would we have to pay? Would it be the £95 for change of ownership and would this then renew the registration? Or would the renewal fee come into it as this has lapsed? If this is the case, would we then simply go with the £124 and create a new registration?

Any advice from someone who has had to do it or knows the system would be appreciated.

Also, we're looking to change the boat's name. Would it be cheaper to change the name at time of registration, or does it make no difference? (Fee for change of name or port is £37)

Cheers!

Speak to the girls at Cardiff.... Might be easiest to just start from fresh registering with the new name.

 

[Cardo]

Speak to the girls at Cardiff.... Might be easiest to just start from fresh registering with the new name.

So I spoke to one of the girls in Cardiff who was extremely helpful.
In our case, the original Part 1 registration was closed when it was put on the Part 3. So it would be a case of closing the Part 3 and completing a new registration (with the £124 fee) quoting the original Part 1 number.

However, something I hadn't given much thought to is the need to have an individual name on the Part 1. Also, the lack of ability to search on the register to find out if a particular name is already taken. The helpful lady suggested putting a list of top 3 names on the application form in case the preferred name is already taken.

I'm thinking the benefits of the Part 1 may not actually outweigh the lack of choice in name (seeing as the name we like is probably quite common) and we may just do a change of ownership/name on the Part 3.

 

[duncan99210]

The major question to ask is why you want Part 1 as opposed to Part 3 registration. We looked at Part 1 when we bought Rampage but decided not to bother, as it required a number of bits of paper to be chased/obtained and didn't give us any advantage for the cost and work compared to the Part 3. We've now been bimbling round the Med for over 2 years now and Part 3 is all anyone is interested in.

 

[Tranona]

I'm thinking the benefits of the Part 1 may not actually outweigh the lack of choice in name (seeing as the name we like is probably quite common) and we may just do a change of ownership/name on the Part 3.

You can always modify the name by adding "of XX" where XX is usually a location such as your home port or favourite anchorage.

The real value of Part 1 is if the boat is of a type and value where a future owner might require secured finance. The continuous record of ownership also helps when selling.

For identification purposes however SSR is adequate.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

The major question to ask is why you want Part 1 as opposed to Part 3 registration. We looked at Part 1 when we bought Rampage but decided not to bother, as it required a number of bits of paper to be chased/obtained and didn't give us any advantage for the cost and work compared to the Part 3. We've now been bimbling round the Med for over 2 years now and Part 3 is all anyone is interested in.

That's a very sensible question. As a syndicate with a boat with Part 1 registration with less than a year until renewing we are looking at moving to Part 3 for a number of reasons. Unless you expect to have to mortgage the boat there's no big advantage, and any changes to the shareholdings will be much simpler and considerably cheaper with the boat registered under Part 3. People sail all over the world in British registered boats with no more than an SSR registration document to prove their bona fides without any trouble at all as far as I know.

 

[Cardo]

So after a quick discussion with the prettier half, we've decided it'll just be easier to go with Part 3. Whilst we have all the documents necessary to register Part 1, the name issue is the clincher. Whilst the "of XX" trick looks pretty good, we're both pretty OCD and would prefer a single word name.

So, a further question. Is it possible to change the owner and the name at the same time on a Part 3 on the online system? Or would we be better off sending off the old fashioned paper form showing both the change of name and owner?

 

[BrianH]

However, something I hadn't given much thought to is the need to have an individual name on the Part 1. Also, the lack of ability to search on the register to find out if a particular name is already taken. The helpful lady suggested putting a list of top 3 names on the application form in case the preferred name is already taken.
I'm thinking the benefits of the Part 1 may not actually outweigh the lack of choice in name (seeing as the name we like is probably quite common) and we may just do a change of ownership/name on the Part 3.

The individual name requirement is individual to the port of registry and there are now many ports listed for registration (PDF document here). Unless you are particular about which port you choose some remote ones should not have even the more common names. However, that still doesn't solve the problem of not being able to see a list and find out if the name is already taken for that port before application, which is a strange anomaly in these web-based days.

 

[Stork_III]

So I spoke to one of the girls in Cardiff who was extremely helpful.
In our case, the original Part 1 registration was closed when it was put on the Part 3. So it would be a case of closing the Part 3 and completing a new registration (with the £124 fee) quoting the original Part 1 number.

However, something I hadn't given much thought to is the need to have an individual name on the Part 1. Also, the lack of ability to search on the register to find out if a particular name is already taken. The helpful lady suggested putting a list of top 3 names on the application form in case the preferred name is already taken.

I'm thinking the benefits of the Part 1 may not actually outweigh the lack of choice in name (seeing as the name we like is probably quite common) and we may just do a change of ownership/name on the Part 3.

You can search the ITU MARS site to check if or how many boats, with VHF license ie most, have the name you fancy. http://www.itu.int/online/mms/mars/ship_search.sh

 

[Cardo]

You can search the ITU MARS site to check if or how many boats, with VHF license ie most, have the name you fancy. http://www.itu.int/online/mms/mars/ship_search.sh

Thanks for the link.
As expected, the name we like comes up loads! Yeah, I know it would be nice to have a more unique name, but hey, we just like it.
Pity it's not possible to see more than the MMSI! Would be handy to see what register they're on, etc.

 

[Tranona]

That's a very sensible question. As a syndicate with a boat with Part 1 registration with less than a year until renewing we are looking at moving to Part 3 for a number of reasons. Unless you expect to have to mortgage the boat there's no big advantage, and any changes to the shareholdings will be much simpler and considerably cheaper with the boat registered under Part 3. People sail all over the world in British registered boats with no more than an SSR registration document to prove their bona fides without any trouble at all as far as I know.

In my view Part 1 is much better for a syndicated or multiple ownership boat. It ensures that the allocation of shares is properly recorded and the boat cannot be sold without all owners agreeing. Sale of individual shares are formally recorded.

Part 3 is nothing to do with ownership in a formal sense, merely registration as a British Ship. It does to "prove" anything to do with ownership as it is just an unchecked self declaration.

Proof of ownership is actually through the Bil of Sale, but Part 1 is a formal record of ownership.

So keep it up!

 

[Bilgediver]

That's a very sensible question. As a syndicate with a boat with Part 1 registration with less than a year until renewing we are looking at moving to Part 3 for a number of reasons. Unless you expect to have to mortgage the boat there's no big advantage, and any changes to the shareholdings will be much simpler and considerably cheaper with the boat registered under Part 3. People sail all over the world in British registered boats with no more than an SSR registration document to prove their bona fides without any trouble at all as far as I know.

Tut Tut.......Pt ! has to be re registered at change of ownership!!!!!! Did you forget If the boat was already owned by other members and you bought in then the owners shares has to be corrected....Surely the new piece of plastic still shows who owns how many 64ths!!

All excuses to improve the cash flow at LLanishen Cardiff .

 

[vyv_cox]

As expected, the name we like comes up loads! Yeah, I know it would be nice to have a more unique name, but hey, we just like it.

Hopefully something a little more original than Free Spirit or Carpe Diem! There must be at least two of each in every port in UK

 

[Cardo]

Hopefully something a little more original than Free Spirit or Carpe Diem! There must be at least two of each in every port in UK

I fear it's only barely more original. Maybe.

 

[samwise]

Depends on what type of sailing you intend to do. We continued with the Part 1 registration for our boat ( plus a name change) and found that official looking bit of laminate smoothed our path through marina receptions and port police all the way through Spain and Portugal where officialdom rules OK!

There have been other occasions ( recently in the Baltic) where it worked its magic with some snippy customs people.

It is more expensive than an SSR and you have to remember to renew it, which involves another fee. If you are only intending to coast around UK with the odd cross channel sally, SSR will do the job.

Re the names. We had to add Of Orwell to the name because there was one other craft already registered with the name of choice. Not a problem really.

I also found the MCA ladies extremely helpful and patient.