Buying a boat. How to avoid being conned.

[ferrispeterchris]

Not sure if conned is the correct word.I have bought boats in the past without any problems but in my latest venture I need serious advice. The boat is in good condition and well equipped but I have heard whispers about the seller.
If only boats were like cars with a Log Book to prove ownership.If I cannot be given paper proof of ownership should I walk away?I have the Sail and hull number and notice the boat has been registered with the relevant owners club so surely nobody would try to sell a hookey boat with such evidence. If I draft a semi legal bill of sale with the usual phrases such as asking the seller to agree he is the rightful owner how much protecton does that give me if a hidden real owner appears?

 

[saltylegs]

Northern Ireland is a small place, if you can post more details I am sure you will get more feedback about the seller (most likely by PM).
The RYA web site has good info on buying and selling and downloadable forms that you can use.

 

[Tranona]

Not sure if conned is the correct word.I have bought boats in the past without any problems but in my latest venture I need serious advice. The boat is in good condition and well equipped but I have heard whispers about the seller.
If only boats were like cars with a Log Book to prove ownership.If I cannot be given paper proof of ownership should I walk away?I have the Sail and hull number and notice the boat has been registered with the relevant owners club so surely nobody would try to sell a hookey boat with such evidence. If I draft a semi legal bill of sale with the usual phrases such as asking the seller to agree he is the rightful owner how much protecton does that give me if a hidden real owner appears?

the process for protecting your interests when buying a boat is well established. It seems that you don't know much about it, so I suggest you buy the little book published by the RYA on buying and selling used boats. This talks you through the process and the documents you need to see and check before you part with your money. There are model contract and Bills of Sale which if used correctly will minimise the chances of buying a problem boat. However, not 100% foolproof as you will find when you read the book, but spotting potential problems is usually not difficult when you know what to look for. If you are unsure about doing it yourself you can always pay a broker to handle the exchange for you.

The main document showing title is the Bill of Sale but in addition the boat may be on the Part 1 register where the title is registered. so the first thing to look for is a Bill of Sale from the previous owner to the current seller with evidence that the seller is the person on the BofS. If you do not see that it is a sign to walk away. There is a check list in the RYA book listing what other documents should be available.

If the person selling the boat is well established and has owned the boat for some time there is unlikely to be any problem, but as you have limited comeback once you have bought it you must satisfy yourself that all is in order before you buy.

 

[NickRobinson]

I have heard whispers about the seller.

......
That's the problem isn't it? You need to be comfortable and be able to look the real owner in the eye later (worst case scenario) and tell him/her you felt all was above board.
The RYA forms are at least a help, I've used them buying and selling my last three boats with limited paperwork.
You have to think about what your buyer will ask for when you sell too.
Hope it works out and you get a new shiny bargain
Nick

 

[V1701]

You could also pay a reputable broker to oversee the paperwork & the transaction. See Mr. Jonic's page here...

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

In addition to the helpful comments above, an HPI check should be done in case a loan has been taken out which does not appear on the Part 1 mortgagee's list.

 

[Tranona]

In addition to the helpful comments above, an HPI check should be done in case a loan has been taken out which does not appear on the Part 1 mortgagee's list.

Not sure there is such a thing as an HPI check on boats. Rare, but not impossible to have an unregistered loan secured against a boat. Most lenders will either require registration or to hold the documents as security.

 

[Boo2]

The boat is in good condition and well equipped but I have heard whispers about the seller.

If I was in any doubt at all then I personally would just walk away. If you are putting out a large sum then you need to be completely confident in the deal and the person you are dealing with. Without that you're just risking heartache and stress.

Boo2

 

[KellysEye]

You could get a third party (solicitor ideally, he may have one already) to set up an escrow account. You retain the boat ownership until the money is paid into the account and cleared and the solicitor then sends the money to you. This enables you to ensure you are paid. You also need to ensure there is no mortgage on the boat and that he is the owner. If you can't establish those two I would walk away.

 

[ferrispeterchris]

Thank you all for your replies.As I said I have been buying boats for years and never had any problems before. The sum involved is not great around £2k (I am downsizing due to age) but enough to get annoyed about if it all goes pear shaped. At present I am trying to contact the previous owner via Sail No/Owners Website/Yacht Club where she was last seen. Hopefully it will all turn out ok but I am not laying out any dosh until I am 100% sure that the seller is the rightful owner. By the way I am aware of the RYA forms but I believe the agreement the buyer of my last boat drew up is better so I shall use his format (full of where withalls,provenance and other big words).

 

[Uricanejack]

Thank you all for your replies.As I said I have been buying boats for years and never had any problems before. The sum involved is not great around £2k (I am downsizing due to age) but enough to get annoyed about if it all goes pear shaped. At present I am trying to contact the previous owner via Sail No/Owners Website/Yacht Club where she was last seen. Hopefully it will all turn out ok but I am not laying out any dosh until I am 100% sure that the seller is the rightful owner. By the way I am aware of the RYA forms but I believe the agreement the buyer of my last boat drew up is better so I shall use his format (full of where withalls,provenance and other big words).

Like you I have bought several boats. All on the hand shake. haven't been bitten yet.
If the price was higher. I would sugest a search for any Liens. but for 2k its going to cost to much.
Has the boat got a certificate of registry.? if not worry a bit more.
Has boat got official no? Hull identity no?. if you have, Boat name Builder Name, Year built, lenth, breadth,Hull No.
You can check register to see if seller is listed as owner.
No all boats are registered.
bill of sale from previous owner to current owner? listing boats manufaturer Name and No. Id want to see one.
Insurance document showing Name, builder Name, year, hull no, lenth breadth. and in sellars name as owner or insured.?
If he cant show you any of these start to be more worried. but ask why. dog might have eaten them.
If dog ate them ask sellar for noterised statment about loss.

Finnaly if he has a dodgy rep. and can't do any of the above.
Id Walk.

 

[alahol2]

Is their a VHF ship licence with boat/owner? http://www.itu.int/online/mms/mars/ship_search.sh

 

[prv]

I believe the agreement the buyer of my last boat drew up is better so I shall use his format (full of where withalls,provenance and other big words).

Obviously we can't comment on whether it's better without reading it, but it's sad that people think lots of complicated language and obscure words is somehow better than a well-thought-out and clearly-written agreement. All things being equal it's not, it's worse, unless you have some tactical reason for wanting to add confusion and difficulty to the process (which you might, but seems unlikely in this case).

Good lawyers write things thoroughly but clearly. Bad ones throw in lots of complicated language in the hope that nobody will figure out what it actually means and then point out their mistakes. My dad once asked a conveyancing solicitor to explain a paragraph in a document she'd just produced, and she had to admit she had no real idea but "we always put it in".

Pete