Burgees and toggles

henryf

henryf

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www.911virgin.com
Right then, with all the recent hoo har about burgees and the need for a toggle could someone tell me how the toggle works. I can see the when stringing lots of burgees or flags together it makes sense but the toggle is too big to fit in the ensign top metal loop.

I had thought about popping the toggle out, feeding the loop through the metal eye then re-inserting the toggle, but the toggle is well and truly attached to the burgee.

Thanks in advance for what will no doubt be a simple explanation!

Henry :)
 
henryf said:
.......... but the toggle is too big to fit in the ensign top metal loop...........
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I do not understand. Burgees and ensigns have a toggle on the hoist and a loose tail.
You can cut the tail to a convenient length and whip an eye into it to fit the toggle of the penant/burgee beneath. The bugree halyard can also have an eye whipped into it to attach the top burgee. I don't see a problem.
So what is "the ensign top metal loop"?
 
Last edited:
Sorry, I meant to type ensign staff metal hoop.

I suspect the answer is remove the toggle, push the loop into which it was fitted through the hoop or ring on the ensign staff the push the toggle back in to secure.

The problem is the toggle won't come out of the loop.

I'll post photos when I get a moment.

Obviously being fitted to a motor boat with fittings on the radar arch as opposed to a yacht with bits of string on which to hoist it.

Henry :)
 
This is our ensign

image_zps3b3cc87f.jpg



The problem is this...

image_zpsaeeff437.jpg


...is too tight. You can't slide the toggle out. Is my ensign fastened in an "approved" manner for toggled flags ?

Henry :)
 
You seem to be missing something, ie a Halliard..
I always rig them up, it allows me to easily attach burgees, courtsey flags, My nice Forum flag....
Tie a bowline in the end of a piece of small diameter rope, so that the toggle just passes through it.
Thread the rope through the loop at the top of your flagstaff.
Pull the toggle up to the loop using the rope.
Take the rope down to a small cleat positioned near the base of the flagstaff. Or a lower eye
Pass back up to the loop at the bottom of the burgee.
Take back down to the cleat and tie off..

You can then take the burgee off when you want, and tension it so it doesn't flap around..
You can customise it with a pulley at the top.
Whipped loops and eyes, but essentially that's what you need..
A Halliard..
 
Thanks for that.

I knew there was a simple explanation. I had it in my mind that halliards needed to be looped round a pulley and essentially quite long bits of string. They obviously don't and I can easily tie off on the lower cleat of my set up.

Happy days :)
 
henryf said:
...is too tight. You can't slide the toggle out. Is my ensign fastened in an "approved" manner for toggled flags ?
Click to expand...
I always tie any ensign or burgee exactly as you have done it and if I can't easily remove the toggle, I take a craft knife and carefully cut a little bit of the stitching until I can ease the toggle out. Whilst I understand how it is supposed to be done as explained by Dill et Bound, there is a difference between mobos and saily boats when it comes to flags and that is because mobos go much faster than saily boats, the load on the loop of string holding the flag is much higher. Running at 25kts into a 20kt wind obviously puts the equivalent of 45kt F9 gale onto the flag so no wonder the string fails. Thats why I favour the way you and I mount our flags as the load on the string is distributed around the much larger diameter of the toggle compared to the much smaller diameter of the metal hoop. So I will continue doing it this way rather than adopt the 'official' method
 
But of course however fast you go, you need to be able to Dip your Ensign as you pass a warship or the Royal Yacht..
As saily boats are at sea a lot longer than mobos, as they are slower. Perhaps they flap more..
Just making things easy, does nt necessarily make them right...
 
Right then. Have made up a little halyard and attached thus:

togglefinal_zpsc378e4d7.jpg




The only problem is no matter what I do I can't get my Halyard to clank on the radar arch in the same way yachts can. Any ideas :)


Henry :)
 
henryf said:
The only problem is no matter what I do I can't get my Halyard to clank on the radar arch in the same way yachts can. Any ideas :)


Henry :)
Click to expand...
Make a recording of the noise and play it through loudspeakers positioned on the deck. :)
 
henryf said:
Right then. Have made up a little halyard and attached thus:

togglefinal_zpsc378e4d7.jpg




The only problem is no matter what I do I can't get my Halyard to clank on the radar arch in the same way yachts can. Any ideas :)


Henry :)
Click to expand...

At least we know how to tie a knot ;)

Nice burgee. Doesn't actually look as bad as they did in that previous photo. Looks like they've upped the quality since the earlier batch.
 
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