Bureaucraps (brain dead morons) (boaty)

pessimist

pessimist

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Forgive me if I ramble. I quit the dreaded weed some months ago and so saved some money. SWMO agreed I could spend this as I pleased. It pleased me to purchase a Tinker RIB secondhand with a view to converting this to our main life raft as our current dedicated raft is reaching the end of its useful.

I found a suitable specimen and agreed a price (good so far). We then contacted Henshaws (manufacturer of such RIBs), try to keep up! who have been offering these inflatables for many years with a liferaft option. Oh dear me no they said - we can't sell you the liferaft bits 'cos the prat with the hat says its unsafe.

These vessels are/were accepted by RORC as a liferaft, endorsed by the RNLI (I believe) but are no longer believed to be safe. Apparently to qualify as a liferaft an inflatable has to have two tubes arranged one above the other (although I believe there have been several occasions when the two tubes have separated with life threatening consequences) and must be "dedicated as a liferaft" i.e. hidden away in a container with no means of inspection.

I'd quite like to make my own decisions on matters this important, rather than rely on a faceless jobsworth.

Views?

Cheers

Colin
 
OK this is becoming a tad incestuous but it is IMHO an important point. They bang on the telly about testing your smoke alarm. We all maintain our cars. But our liferaft must be shut away so we can pray that when it is needed it might just work.

Would you do the same with sed car or alarm ?
 
Henshaw's had a couple of good selling points for the Tinker as a liferaft:

1) When the crisis is over you can row, sail, or even motor towards land in a Tinker

2) Like packing your own parachute, you know the Tinker is in good working order. You also know instinctively how to operate it because you do so frequently.

We have one, complete with sailing and liferaft kit. Ours isn't a RIB, but has the folding wooden floor - it still planes nicely with a 4hp engine and only one aboard, and rows superbly. Incidently Henshaw are a great company to deal with - very helpful and knowledgeable staff.

I have recently acquired a valise liferaft as well as we've taken to crossing the North Sea at night, and, even though we have the Tinker stowed on a platform over the aft deck, I have concerns about deploying it rapidly in a real crisis, possibly in foul weather, with the skipper and crew afeared for their lives.
 
Quite so Pragmatist.

That's what makes us different from the French!

On the same theme though I believe I am right in thinking that you can no longer buy a 2nd hand American built boat over here unless it's been tested. This despite the fact you may consider it be very seaworthy and suitable for keeping your nearest and dearest from drowning, typically evidenced by the fact it has floated across the Atlantic Ocean by an indirect route.
 
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All sounds excellent stuff, Francis - but yours to make the decision - not those who sit in offices !

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I dont agree. You are assuming that some aparatchik has made a rule for no reason - you may be right but I suspect you are more likely to be wrong. I would expect there to be standards for liferafts based on some reasonable research, the sort of info that isnt available to the average sailor on the street. Just like there are standards for a whole lot of other istems, from your car tyres to airplane black boxes. And unless you are personally in that line of work, I dont see how you can automatically assume you know better.

OK we all know of endless cases where the nanny state overdoes it and applies restrictions unnecessarily to issues where common sense should be sufficient, but I dont think this is one of them.
 
I fully agree that we suffer from rules imposed by folk who don't know what they're talking about. It's even worse in this case because you may be between two sets of such people: those who imposed the rules and insurers who may turn away claims if you don't follow the rules.

On the other hand, as Birdseye has suggested, there may - just may - be some method in the madness.

I guess it's your choice!
 
These craft have been tested and approved by RORC, RNLI and others. Tests have been widely available in the achting press. Who do you trust to get it right, these bodies or a faceless bureaucrap? I wish I had you faith in these people.

And thats before I get on to personal choice/responsibility etc.
 
going back to my earlier tongue-in-cheek post, what is illegal is not you carrying a tinker with the add-on bits, or indeed not carrying any safety gear at all. what is illegal is to sell an item described as a 'life raft' that doesn't meet the criteria they have set out. (i'm not debating the rightness of those rules - yet). if they sold it to you under another name - e.g. camping cover - that would be legal. likewise if you had an old one you could go on using it.

when i was fitting out i came across a range of very cheap liferafts - something like £400 for an 8-man raft. when i looked into it, what they were selling was a self inflating rubber donut less than 3 ft across that 8 people could hang onto while swimming. that was no more than 5 years ago. i've no idea whether they were legal then or are available now, but imagine how upset you'd be if you bought one imagining you'd bought a real liferaft and had to use it in anger!

i'd be interested to read any accounts of using a tinker as a raft when sinking in heavy weather. personally my experiences on a survival course put me off the idea of trying to right a capsized rib. i'd also be more concerned about the lack of water ballast pockets than the lack of an extra tube.
 
No - agree with a number of those points and we will probably either extend the life our our elderly raft or purchase one anyway - but in the event of sinking as the result of fire or collision the ability to sail somewhere rather than sit and wait appeals. Also the idea that one's entire security is down to how well the raft was packed away is not entirely reassuring !
 
Regarding Liferafts, I service my own each year, I replace out of date stuff, flares, seasick pills, batteries etc, I have the cylinder pressure checked and weigh it, blow up raft with foot pump, check for air venting when over inflated, leave for two days inflated, check for leaks, repack contents and raft.
I am confident that it will work if ever needed. what law am I breaking?.
Malc
 
my raft had an initial 3-year service interval. it is packed in a hermetically sealed liner. all that was required before that was to open the canister and check the seal indicator on the liner was ok. because the ARC rules required a certificate of inspection within the preceding year i took the raft to be inspected at a local agent in gran canaria. when i went to collect it they charged me for a full service and said it was a legal requirement. they also told me the warranty of the raft was now void as they weren't approved agents for Lifeguard. oh sh*t says i but carried on secure in the knowledge that it was now fully professionally serviced. or so i thought till i took it to a service agent back home and watched it being unpacked and inflated.

-the airtight liner had been removed and not replaced and the whole thing was wet inside the canister

-the raft had been incorrectly folded

-the trigger line had been packed incorrectly in its pouch so that it would have jammed when trying to inflate.

-the equipment kit wasn't secured to the raft and would have been lost.

before you ask - Tonogami Canarias of Las Palmas

then there were the reports of a service agent who was systematically stealing rafts and returning canisters filled with old sails and junk.

there's a lot to be said for knowing what's in the box.
 
I wouldn't imagine you are because it is only you and yours who will suffer if the the raft doesn't work. If you were to sell it on though, I'm not sure where the responsibility lies, caveat emptor, I'd guess.
 
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