Bukh Stop Solenoid diesel Bukh dv10
- Thread starter sctpc
- Start date
VicS
Well-Known Member
similar to the diagram I found
but
It looks like a single resistor instead of two in parallel for alternator excitation.
and
A resistor in series with the two diodes connecting the buzzer to the low oil pressure and high temperature warning light circuits.
A resistor that will , I think, in effect be in parallel with the buzzer.
Maybe changes due to a change in buzzer type. Just a guess. Perhaps from an electro-mechanical one to a piezo one.
but
It looks like a single resistor instead of two in parallel for alternator excitation.
and
A resistor in series with the two diodes connecting the buzzer to the low oil pressure and high temperature warning light circuits.
A resistor that will , I think, in effect be in parallel with the buzzer.
Maybe changes due to a change in buzzer type. Just a guess. Perhaps from an electro-mechanical one to a piezo one.
sctpc
Member
Photo of page 232 Bukh workshop manual,
disconnected the red highlighted wire its live to Diode 20 when motor is running.
disconnected the red highlighted wire its live to Diode 20 when motor is running.
VicS
Well-Known Member
The wire you have colored red is the wire to the stop solenoid.
It should only be live when the key switch is turned to the "stop" position.
I do not understand how it can be live if the engine is running. If it is live the stop solenoid will be energised and the engine should not run.
It should only be live when the key switch is turned to the "stop" position.
I do not understand how it can be live if the engine is running. If it is live the stop solenoid will be energised and the engine should not run.
sctpc
Member
yet its running perfectly, when I plug it in to 20 it energizes the alarm, could the auxiliary wire Stop the coil? or even the supply from the switch? or should I just give up and get an electrician to look at it.
VicS
Well-Known Member
And the engine stops when you turn the key to the stop position I take it.
I wonder if someone has altered the wiring for some reason.
I would look to see what is connected to the stop solenoid and how it is connected back to the key switch.
And also trace the wire you have coloured red to see just what it is connected to. It must be connected to something that is live somewhere.
You have the wiring diagrams it should not be impossible to sort it out but from a distance its not so easy.
Even if the wire is live I dont believe the buzzer should sound if the engine is running unless the oil pressure is low or the engine temperature high.
What do you mean by "auxillary wire"
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sctpc
Member
as I say last summer all was well I never touched any electronics before in two years I had to boat as has been well.
VicS
Well-Known Member
That's OK. It should be live when the switch is in the run and start positions.
BTW the wiring diagram in the manual for the DV10 and DV 24 on http://www.bluemoment.com/downloads.html is clearer and easier to read than the one you are looking at.
cimo
Well-Known Member
hmm. heres 2 things to try real quick.
1. if it's readily accessible, disconnect and remake that 8-way connector.
There could be a short here. check with your meter.
If this wiring diagram represents your actual wiring, its unlikely that the stop solenoid wire is live in itself, it has potiential (no pun intended) to provide a path to ground though, so
2. Check for a short between terminals 1&2 and 2&3 on the diode plate.
good strategy to check your system against the wiring diagram as bukh panels can vary a bit.
1. if it's readily accessible, disconnect and remake that 8-way connector.
There could be a short here. check with your meter.
If this wiring diagram represents your actual wiring, its unlikely that the stop solenoid wire is live in itself, it has potiential (no pun intended) to provide a path to ground though, so
2. Check for a short between terminals 1&2 and 2&3 on the diode plate.
good strategy to check your system against the wiring diagram as bukh panels can vary a bit.
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mjf107
Well-Known Member
Looking at the Motoren workshop manual I think the diode your referring to is connected between terminals 2 and 7 on the distributor plate (the extra '0' represents the connection point. This is a steering diode to sound the alarm with stop solenoid in operation, it also blocks the current path from 15 on the key switch via terminals 3,4,8,7. If this diode has shorted out you could have a voltage on terminal 2 with the key switch on and the solenoid disconnected, I would also expect the voltage to increase with the alternator running, current being produced from the diode trio into terminal 61.To test the diode disconnect it at least one end to avoid possible parallel connections it should only conduct with positive on the end which connects to 2 and negative to terminal 7 end use a diode test setting on a multi meter or test lamp and battery.
But the above does not fit your symptoms entirely as I read them but its worth checking the diode anyway. I also see that Bert has posted a slightly different distributor plate board, best to check exactly what you have if this is not a fix
Answer to Post 24 the voltages I'm referring to are via the resistor network, alternator warning lamp and would not pass enough current to operate the stop solenoid See sketch
All the best Michael
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sctpc
Member
its not the stop coil
I striped out my side locker and squeezed behind the motor and found the wire but its not the stop coil thats a black wire no this goes to a little box with 5 pins but I have a suspension its the alarm for the sail drive seal.
The loom clips in on the rusty spot from the control pannel anyone know what this is? I cant read any writing as I had to hold the phone and shoot to see in that area as there is no access.
I striped out my side locker and squeezed behind the motor and found the wire but its not the stop coil thats a black wire no this goes to a little box with 5 pins but I have a suspension its the alarm for the sail drive seal.
The loom clips in on the rusty spot from the control pannel anyone know what this is? I cant read any writing as I had to hold the phone and shoot to see in that area as there is no access.
sctpc
Member
try again.
VicS
Well-Known Member
Ah
You have a sail drive! Why didn't I think of that
Solves the mystery, I think,
The wire you have been concerned about is the wire from the sail drive diaphragm alarm.
I think it should be yellow but the drawing is not clear enough to read the colour
It should go to terminal number 1 on the diode plate 20
The black wire from the stop solenoid and should go to terminal number 2
It sounds as though your sail drive diaphragm has failed and you are simply getting an alarm ( buzzer) telling you that. ( It is possible of course that the diaphragm is Ok and that the sensor or control is faulty )
You have a sail drive! Why didn't I think of that
Solves the mystery, I think,
The wire you have been concerned about is the wire from the sail drive diaphragm alarm.
I think it should be yellow but the drawing is not clear enough to read the colour
It should go to terminal number 1 on the diode plate 20
The black wire from the stop solenoid and should go to terminal number 2
It sounds as though your sail drive diaphragm has failed and you are simply getting an alarm ( buzzer) telling you that. ( It is possible of course that the diaphragm is Ok and that the sensor or control is faulty )
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sctpc
Member
So where would I get a new sensor that would fit? I`d prefer an after market one
I would say when my Exhaust injection elbow cracked it filled the engine bay with water and had covered the gasket.
Well I`m so happy to now have an idea, Yes vicS you are 100% correct in my plan the the old owner had used highlighters and yellow wire is colored no 2.
The best thing knowing the problem is now I can trust my bukh to take me anywhere in an emergency again.
I would say when my Exhaust injection elbow cracked it filled the engine bay with water and had covered the gasket.
Well I`m so happy to now have an idea, Yes vicS you are 100% correct in my plan the the old owner had used highlighters and yellow wire is colored no 2.
The best thing knowing the problem is now I can trust my bukh to take me anywhere in an emergency again.
VicS
Well-Known Member
Maybe just got salt on the wiring.. worth checking and rinsing.
Christos
New Member
Rebuilding Bukh's Diode Plate
Excellent thread. I used it a lot. I have also a sailboat with a bukh DV20 engine (mid 80's) and a sail drive. My electric wiring system is almost gone and I have hard time to find original spare parts. Thus and I am trying to fix it and replace its components with standard ones. So far I have replace the warning light bulbs, ( I do not know their watts and ohms values. I did not think that it was important, but I will check it now), and the acoustic alarm buzzer with a cheap electronic (piezoelectric one). Now, I am trying to replace the componets in my diode plate (see attachment)
. My large resistor is gone, but it was the same with the one shown in the image that bert49uk post#20 has attached. In my diode plate however instead of a resistor connecting the 2 diodes to terminal #1, I have a 6.2 V zener diode.
The sketch that Michael (mjf107 post #30) has shared with us, was very useful to me.
So far I have identify the following componets
1.The 2 diodes for the temperature and oil warning lights #5 and #6 are 1N4007 (in my diode plate)
2. The zener diode in my diode plate is C6V2 i.e. 6.2V)
3. The large diode for the solenoid is 1N5404 (I read the numbers from bert49uk posted image) and it looks the same with mine.
I am looking for the values for the 2 resistors.
1. The big one that is in parallel with the Alternator Warning Light (connects terminals #4 to #8)(I think it is 160 Ohm 2 W) but I am not sure and
2. the small one that is in parallet to acoustic alarm (connects terminals #1 to #7).
Finally, I thought that when I was turning the ignition switch to position b, all the warning lights and the acoustic alarm were on. I have a trouble to see how this works from Michael's attached sketch.
Any help will be very valuable to me.
Christos
Excellent thread. I used it a lot. I have also a sailboat with a bukh DV20 engine (mid 80's) and a sail drive. My electric wiring system is almost gone and I have hard time to find original spare parts. Thus and I am trying to fix it and replace its components with standard ones. So far I have replace the warning light bulbs, ( I do not know their watts and ohms values. I did not think that it was important, but I will check it now), and the acoustic alarm buzzer with a cheap electronic (piezoelectric one). Now, I am trying to replace the componets in my diode plate (see attachment)
The sketch that Michael (mjf107 post #30) has shared with us, was very useful to me.
So far I have identify the following componets
1.The 2 diodes for the temperature and oil warning lights #5 and #6 are 1N4007 (in my diode plate)
2. The zener diode in my diode plate is C6V2 i.e. 6.2V)
3. The large diode for the solenoid is 1N5404 (I read the numbers from bert49uk posted image) and it looks the same with mine.
I am looking for the values for the 2 resistors.
1. The big one that is in parallel with the Alternator Warning Light (connects terminals #4 to #8)(I think it is 160 Ohm 2 W) but I am not sure and
2. the small one that is in parallet to acoustic alarm (connects terminals #1 to #7).
Finally, I thought that when I was turning the ignition switch to position b, all the warning lights and the acoustic alarm were on. I have a trouble to see how this works from Michael's attached sketch.
Any help will be very valuable to me.
Christos
sctpc
Member
Christos do you have a workshop manual there are several but page 47 maybe what you want. I hope you can read my screen shot https://www.dropbox.com/s/lqwbiz9yi8bz0ww/Bukh_DV10_DV20_Workshop_Manual.pdf
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RestlessL
Well-Known Member
Later Bukh engines have a modified plate. Zener diodes were added to eliminate a problem which resulted in a false alarm, with no associated lamps, under certain charge conditions. This has happened to me, and so I will change the plate on Restless when I get round to it.
The details are here :
http://inadee.co.uk/fulmar.htm#Change of Distribution Plate in Operating Panel
J
The details are here :
http://inadee.co.uk/fulmar.htm#Change of Distribution Plate in Operating Panel
J
RobBrown
Well-Known Member
I have been restling with my 1982 BUKH 20 alarm going off at seemingly random times and even a replacement s/hand Bukh distributor CB from Mistroma of this parish hasn't resolved it, but this thread has been a mine of extra information.Partic RestlessL's link to the Inadee site makes me think problem might rest with new Alternator I fitted, which is a Prestolite 70 or 75 amp in place of an original 50-55A Paris _Rhone. Would this mean the existing resistors were insufficent, hence constant triggering of the buzzer and lamps (partic water temp)? Alarm doesnt trigger until the revs are upped and the Rev counter kicks in. Would replacing the relevant resistor with an alternative be a feasible DIY task? If so, what might be a suitable replacement? Presumably Maplins sourcing?
As a supplementary question, if I simply disconnected the buzzer, will stop imeediate hassle, but not then have audible warning of high engine/exhaust water temp, but my VDO temp sender does have two tabs, one for a meter, which would give me visual reading. What would be the wiriring required to fit a meter- more than a lead from the sender to the meter, I assume.
As a supplementary question, if I simply disconnected the buzzer, will stop imeediate hassle, but not then have audible warning of high engine/exhaust water temp, but my VDO temp sender does have two tabs, one for a meter, which would give me visual reading. What would be the wiriring required to fit a meter- more than a lead from the sender to the meter, I assume.
Christos
New Member
Diode Plate
Thank you for your replies. Sorry for my delayed reply, but I was away, and I wanted to test the circuit first.
Sctpc, yes I had the manual, but my diode plate is a newer one and it is very similar with one that Restlessl desribes wit a zener diode (at 6.2 V isdead of his 3.2).
Still I can not figure out, why when I place the ignition switch to position b, warning lamps are alight. In my diagram I can not figure it out, and in my new circuit only the warning lamp for charging current is comming on (alight). When the key switch is in position "e", the acoustic alarm is on and the warning lamp for charging current is alight again.
The 3 warning lights that I am using are 12V 10W lamps.
I will post my circuit diagram when I figure out how it works?
Thanks again for the replies.
Christos
Thank you for your replies. Sorry for my delayed reply, but I was away, and I wanted to test the circuit first.
Sctpc, yes I had the manual, but my diode plate is a newer one and it is very similar with one that Restlessl desribes wit a zener diode (at 6.2 V isdead of his 3.2).
Still I can not figure out, why when I place the ignition switch to position b, warning lamps are alight. In my diagram I can not figure it out, and in my new circuit only the warning lamp for charging current is comming on (alight). When the key switch is in position "e", the acoustic alarm is on and the warning lamp for charging current is alight again.
The 3 warning lights that I am using are 12V 10W lamps.
I will post my circuit diagram when I figure out how it works?
Thanks again for the replies.
Christos
