Bukh injection pump(?) leak

[LittleSister]

I seem to have a significant fuel leak from, or in the vicinity of, the injection pump on my Bukh 36.

I only had time to inspect it very briefly, but as far as I could see it did not emanate from any of the pipes to and from the pump. It was, however, collecting on the underside of the injection pump before falling into the tray below the engine.

Engine is running fine (though a bit smelly), but I am intending to do a long run in the next few days, so want to get it sorted if possible.

Is there anything in particular I should be looking for/at?

 

[Poignard]

Wher you able to ascertain if the leak on the high pressure side or the low pressure side?

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Two possibilities spring to mind. Copper washer joint has loosened, tighten everything up. Or the pump is failing in which case take it to Diesco in Ipswich. Nacton estate. Not expensive and they do a great job.

 

[LittleSister]

Wher you able to ascertain if the leak on the high pressure side or the low pressure side?

No, not yet. It was the briefest of looks, for various reasons.

Two possibilities spring to mind. Copper washer joint has loosened, tighten everything up. Or the pump is failing in which case take it to Diesco in Ipswich. Nacton estate. Not expensive and they do a great job.

Thanks. The idea of tightening everything, rather than trying to find what needs tightening first (unless it's obvious on further inspection), had somehow eluded me, but I was also wary that tightening things (other than pipe joints) might disturb critical settings. Injection pumps are a mystery to me, so would not know if there were particular sensitivities; or gaskets, plugs or whatever that might fail.

I think something loose or dislodged is the most likely cause, as I fell on top of the engine a while back and could well have knocked something out of kilter, and had in any case previous to that suspected a more minor fuel leak which I had failed to get to the bottom of.

 

[colind3782]

If you clean everything up and put some blue paper around all the individual joints, any leak should show up clearly.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

What’s the access like? I imagine the 36 is the same as the 20 with the pump at the back

 

[LittleSister]

What’s the access like? I imagine the 36 is the same as the 20 with the pump at the back

Ha! I did write an explanation of that in a previous post, but then decided it was an unnecessary complication and deleted it.

Access and visibility is from the top. Engine is under cockpit sole which has large lifting panel*. Pump is on the port side of engine towards the rear. Engine takes up most of the width of compartment. So excellent visibility/access at the top, not so good at sides, v poor low down/underneath (i.e. juggling small mirror required). I have good sight and access of top of pump, poor for underside.

[*My advice, freely offered - if you've lifted cockpit sole to work on engine, and had to leave the boat briefly, don't get distracted on your return by chat with neighbour and step backwards into the cockpit.]

 

[Poignard]

[*My advice, freely offered - if you've lifted cockpit sole to work on engine, and had to leave the boat briefly, don't get distracted on your return by chat with neighbour and step backwards into the cockpit.]

Ouch!

There was a thread on here recently about electronic endoscopes, which are quite low-priced. One of those could be a help in finding your leak.

I have one on my Xmas wish-list.

 

[Bilgediver]

I believe the Bukh has the same type of HP Fuel pump as some older Volvo's. The Hp fuel pipes attach on vertical outlets and the low pressure fuel inlet is a flexible pipe to a banjo connection at the pump flange. Sources of leakage are as follows. The inlet banjo connection at the pump flange where there should be two white metal washers to effect a seal. There is also a bleed screw on the flange which might not be screwed tight . The HP pipes connect the the discharge valve bodies and there are two possible sources of leakage for each outlet. The pipe connection to the discharge valve might not be tight and also another possible source of leakage is the joint between the discharge valve body and pump flange where there is a sealing washer. Tinkering with these items will not affect injector timing which is determined by the shim pack at the pump flange connection to the crankcase.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

I have to admit that I have largely given up on copper washers in favour of Dowty seals, used in the hydraulics business and a lot more forgiving! Pirtek is one supplier.

 

[Bilgediver]

I have to admit that I have largely given up on copper washers in favour of Dowty seals, used in the hydraulics business and a lot more forgiving! Pirtek is one supplier.

Copper washers have worked fine for me for 50 years or more and being Welsh I often re use them. I do aneal them before first use and every reuse. The manufacturing process work hardens them. To anneal bring to red heat with blowlamp and plunge into cold water.

 

[RMC]

My DV20 Bryce HP Injection Pump Started Leaking From the delivery valves, where they screwed into the pump. Remove the injector pipes, carefully unscrew the delivery valves, and don't loose the spring and valve within.
I replaced the o ring (LP) and copper washer (HP) and it cured my leak.
The DV20 manual clearly shows the Bryce pump and delivery valves.

 

[Bilgediver]

My DV20 Bryce HP Injection Pump Started Leaking From the delivery valves, where they screwed into the pump. Remove the injector pipes, carefully unscrew the delivery valves, and don't loose the spring and valve within.
I replaced the o ring (LP) and copper washer (HP) and it cured my leak.
The DV20 manual clearly shows the Bryce pump and delivery valves.

These are standard pumps and parts are available from diesel injection specialists dealing with Bryce etc items.

 

[LittleSister]

UPDATE:
After closer inspection I still could not relate the leak to any pipe. Tightened a few pipe fittings anyway, but to no avail.

Managed to get an engineer to have a v quick look at it, and he said he doesn't think it's coming from any of the connections, but from one or other of the two joins in the pump body, and that it would need removing from the engine and sending to a specialist like Diesco in Ipswich (that Champagne Murphy mentioned), though he thought they had closed down, or Colchester Injectors(?). He was not familiar with Bukh engines or that injector pump (Bosch VE), and suggested I contacted a Bukh agent.

Nearest one of those is Fox's, and the helpful sounding chap on the phone said I would probably be looking at something like £250 for the pump service, and something similar for the pump removal and replacement/resetting. (Yikes.) I explained that I had been intending to take the boat up the coast for winter storage in the next few days, and he said he'd check out timescales for the work and email me.

I'm now waiting for that email, and in the meantime will adopt the Bukh (or is it Bosch?) workshop manual as my bed time reading.

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions.

 

[Poignard]

UPDATE:
After closer inspection I still could not relate the leak to any pipe. Tightened a few pipe fittings anyway, but to no avail.

Managed to get an engineer to have a v quick look at it, and he said he doesn't think it's coming from any of the connections, but from one or other of the two joins in the pump body, and that it would need removing from the engine and sending to a specialist like Diesco in Ipswich (that Champagne Murphy mentioned), though he thought they had closed down, or Colchester Injectors(?). He was not familiar with Bukh engines or that injector pump (Bosch VE), and suggested I contacted a Bukh agent.

Nearest one of those is Fox's, and the helpful sounding chap on the phone said I would probably be looking at something like £250 for the pump service, and something similar for the pump removal and replacement/resetting. (Yikes.) I explained that I had been intending to take the boat up the coast for winter storage in the next few days, and he said he'd check out timescales for the work and email me.

I'm now waiting for that email, and in the meantime will adopt the Bukh (or is it Bosch?) workshop manual as my bed time reading.

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions.

Find your nearest diesel injection service centre.

It's few years since I had my Bosch DV10 injector pump overhauleed and it cost ca £80 if I remember correctly.

 

[LittleSister]

Find your nearest diesel injection service centre.

It's few years since I had my Bosch DV10 injector pump overhauleed and it cost ca £80 if I remember correctly.

I wouldn't know where to start in removing the pump (in advance of reading the manual), and I understand (perhaps mistakenly) that the timing(?) or something needs resetting when it goes back in.

 

[Bilgediver]

You appear to be indicating that one or the other delivery valve body connections might be weeping. It is possible that this might be rectified just by tightening the valve body which is just a a screwed connection . First slacken of the injector pipe nut and then apply a spanner to the hex part of the delivery valve body and see if it can be turned. If this has no effect then a new copper washer is required. This can be changed without removing the pump body from the engine however if you remove the pump to send it away then take great care as you lift the pump clear of the crankcase to keep the pump upright till you had secured a finger over the ball which connects the pump rack to the operating lever. You do not want this to fall back into the engine. Keep all the shims from the pump flange as if the wrong number of shims are used on reassembly then the timing will be affected.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

UPDATE:
After closer inspection I still could not relate the leak to any pipe. Tightened a few pipe fittings anyway, but to no avail.

Managed to get an engineer to have a v quick look at it, and he said he doesn't think it's coming from any of the connections, but from one or other of the two joins in the pump body, and that it would need removing from the engine and sending to a specialist like Diesco in Ipswich (that Champagne Murphy mentioned), though he thought they had closed down, or Colchester Injectors(?). He was not familiar with Bukh engines or that injector pump (Bosch VE), and suggested I contacted a Bukh agent.

Nearest one of those is Fox's, and the helpful sounding chap on the phone said I would probably be looking at something like £250 for the pump service, and something similar for the pump removal and replacement/resetting. (Yikes.) I explained that I had been intending to take the boat up the coast for winter storage in the next few days, and he said he'd check out timescales for the work and email me.

I'm now waiting for that email, and in the meantime will adopt the Bukh (or is it Bosch?) workshop manual as my bed time reading.

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions.

Pretty sure it’s still there; https://www.diescoltd.com/ and I bet you pay a lot less than £250 for a service.
IIRC the pump unbolts, it’s controlled by cams underneath, obviously I wouldn’t turn the engine over while it’s off although it probably won’t make any difference, then just bolt down again over the cams. No timing issue I think.
Do you have a manual?

 

[LittleSister]

You appear to be indicating that one or the other delivery valve body connections might be weeping. It is possible that this might be rectified just by tightening the valve body which is just a a screwed connection . First slacken of the injector pipe nut and then apply a spanner to the hex part of the delivery valve body and see if it can be turned. If this has no effect then a new copper washer is required. This can be changed without removing the pump body from the engine however if you remove the pump to send it away then take great care as you lift the pump clear of the crankcase to keep the pump upright till you had secured a finger over the ball which connects the pump rack to the operating lever. You do not want this to fall back into the engine. Keep all the shims from the pump flange as if the wrong number of shims are used on reassembly then the timing will be affected.

You speak a language I do not understand! I don't know which bit is the delivery valve body, or any of the other bits you mention! But thank you anyway. I will find out eventually.

Pretty sure it’s still there; https://www.diescoltd.com/ and I bet you pay a lot less than £250 for a service.
IIRC the pump unbolts, it’s controlled by cams underneath, obviously I wouldn’t turn the engine over while it’s off although it probably won’t make any difference, then just bolt down again over the cams. No timing issue I think.
Do you have a manual?

I have the Bukh parts list, which, apart from various spacers, bolts, gearwheel, etc. , treats the injection pump as a single item. (The pump is driven from a gear at the back of the engine. I couldn't see any cams related to it.) The Bukh workshop manual has a conceptual description of how the pump is controlled, and some sections on particular adjustments, but nothing, as far as I could see, on removing or refitting the pump.

I've also read some threads on Bosch pumps on motor forums, but it's all double-dutch to me, as it assumes knowledge/terminology I don't have. Without having taken one to bits, or seeing it being done, I don't really understand how it all works or which bit is which. (It wouldn't necessarily have been 'obvious' to me not to turn the engine!)

I really have enough on my plate at the moment, so don't want to start learning on this particular job, especially as it is costing money and aggro to have the boat not where it is supposed to be. The engine starts and runs very well, and I don't want to muck that up.

I'll just have to bite the bullet and cough up. It's a pity I am short on time, and located where I am dependent on expensive marina engineers. If the pump is simple to remove and replace, a professional should do it in no time. Access for this particular job will be much better on my boat than most, I would think. I just hope it can be sorted without too much delay, and without introducing new problems or affecting the engine's current fine starting and running.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[steve123]

I had the same issue 4 years ago and emailed the photo below to Al at Bukh. His reply was:

"The leak is caused by the failure of the 'o' ring part number 610A2414 which is fitted around the delivery valve which is the part that screws into the top of the fuel pump.
The parts are £2.38 each plus VAT and postage."

Replacing the o ring cured the leak.