Building Night Experience
- Thread starter PhillM
- Start date
PhillM
Well-Known Member
Thanks all.
Good point on the insurance. Once of the reasons I didn't get round to this last year is that SH and night were not allowed. However, that insurer didn't need a survey which was just as well because during the refit I would not like to think about what one might have said. Post refit, post survey (thank you Chrissie) I have a more comprehensive polic which allows unlimited SH and unlimited night, as well as racing.
I take the point about a 2nd pair of eyes.
I also take the point about nav. I tend to be paper based backed up with e hand held gps with a few waypoints. I do have a plotter of sorts on my phone but dont like relying on it.
In light of the other thread, I am also thinking about clip on arrangements. Currently we have jackstays along the side decks and you do have to go outside the shrouds to get past. You also need a long teather to be able to get to the foot of the headstay. When out with family the idea has been that at least they (me) would still be with the boat and 1st action would be to go hove-to. Single handed, at night, hmm perhaps time for a rethink about that.
Another question, how DO you spot pot bouys at night? From what I have seen, there are loads just outsite the main channels.
Good point on the insurance. Once of the reasons I didn't get round to this last year is that SH and night were not allowed. However, that insurer didn't need a survey which was just as well because during the refit I would not like to think about what one might have said. Post refit, post survey (thank you Chrissie) I have a more comprehensive polic which allows unlimited SH and unlimited night, as well as racing.
I take the point about a 2nd pair of eyes.
I also take the point about nav. I tend to be paper based backed up with e hand held gps with a few waypoints. I do have a plotter of sorts on my phone but dont like relying on it.
In light of the other thread, I am also thinking about clip on arrangements. Currently we have jackstays along the side decks and you do have to go outside the shrouds to get past. You also need a long teather to be able to get to the foot of the headstay. When out with family the idea has been that at least they (me) would still be with the boat and 1st action would be to go hove-to. Single handed, at night, hmm perhaps time for a rethink about that.
Another question, how DO you spot pot bouys at night? From what I have seen, there are loads just outsite the main channels.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
Couple of thoughts:
Head torches are cheap and useful for looking at charts: don't spoil night vis as light source is above/behind your eyes.
Pot buoys: surprisingly your typical black 5 litre valvoline container shows up quite well provided the sea state is pretty slight and they haven't been dragged under the surface by the tide. I guess they are an unusual shaped lump on the surface.
BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
Some of the better petzl head torches have a red mode too.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
Yes but they attract the wrong sort of punter
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I prefer sailing at night; it's fun and, in the places I sail, it's often easier than sailing by day. Lights are much easier to spot than buoys, and you can pick up the loom of a lighthouse many miles before you see the light itself. Of course it gets harder when there are lots and lots and lots of lights around. I'll take the Pentland Firth over the Solent any day.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
That may be the case for someone experienced at night sailing, but if someone was to ask me if a short Solent foray was a suitable first night sail, I'd say go for it. Most of the ferries and WAFIs will be tucked up in their berths in the middle of the night so there won't be much around. There might be the odd ship doing a strange maneuvre, and lots of shore lights around, but they are not hazards peculiar to the Solent.
If the same person was to ask if a Pentland crossing was a suitable first night sail, my reply would be along the lines of not on your nelly. Extreme tides (amongst the strongest in the world), rocky shores, breaking standing waves and overfalls that the chart warns are a severe hazard to small craft in any conditions (which may be heard but not seen at night until it's too late when there's no hope of avoiding them), and of course the odd large ship too - that's why in my opinion the Solent is not the most difficult part of the UK coast for night sailing. Not even nearly. Not by a long way. It just isn't. The hazards may be different and natural in Pentland rather than man-made, but that doesn't make them any less difficult to deal with in a safe manner. Get it wrong in the Solent, and the chances are you will just be embarrassed. A mistake in Pentland is much more likely to be the final mistake you ever make.
Seajet
...
PhillM,
I have done a fair bit of night sailing; in calm weather it's a joy, in bad weather it's a ' beam me up Scotty ' sort of experience !
Don't do it alone to start with; if you can't do better I'd come with you, and keep my mouth shut as you're the skipper and hoping to learn.
A good supply of coffee or cup a soup from several flasks is a boon, as are chocolate bars and or my patent boat snack, take 2 crackers, butter lightly and put cheese inbetween as a sandwich.
Another really useful thing to have is ' self heating meals ', Amazon do a good range.
Binoculars are very useful as always, and one trick I found is to use a red pushbike rear light for finding things as this does less damage to ones' night vision ( as I used to night sail a lot my boat has red lights at floor and overhead levels with a switch reachable from the cockpit ).
Do make your first go at night sailing in calm conditions; I found around the South of the isle Of Wight good as one has Selsey, the Nab, St Catherines and Needles lights to navigate by and not much in the way of traffic or lobster pots - there are some big unlit steel buoys in the Solent, at the site where the Mary Rose was found for a start !
A small LEd torch as well as the red bike lamp is handy, and of course one should always be harnessed on, even in the cockpit.
Arthur Ransome wrote " Never be afraid to reef in the dark " and unless I was racing with a team of gorillas I reckon that spot on, I'd set a conservative amount of sail.
I find it never gets absolutely dark at sea in decent weather, but can get cold even in summer; dawn at sea is quite magical, when the lights one has been watching for hours transform into anchored ships etc.
You're in for a great experience.
I have done a fair bit of night sailing; in calm weather it's a joy, in bad weather it's a ' beam me up Scotty ' sort of experience !
Don't do it alone to start with; if you can't do better I'd come with you, and keep my mouth shut as you're the skipper and hoping to learn.
A good supply of coffee or cup a soup from several flasks is a boon, as are chocolate bars and or my patent boat snack, take 2 crackers, butter lightly and put cheese inbetween as a sandwich.
Another really useful thing to have is ' self heating meals ', Amazon do a good range.
Binoculars are very useful as always, and one trick I found is to use a red pushbike rear light for finding things as this does less damage to ones' night vision ( as I used to night sail a lot my boat has red lights at floor and overhead levels with a switch reachable from the cockpit ).
Do make your first go at night sailing in calm conditions; I found around the South of the isle Of Wight good as one has Selsey, the Nab, St Catherines and Needles lights to navigate by and not much in the way of traffic or lobster pots - there are some big unlit steel buoys in the Solent, at the site where the Mary Rose was found for a start !
A small LEd torch as well as the red bike lamp is handy, and of course one should always be harnessed on, even in the cockpit.
Arthur Ransome wrote " Never be afraid to reef in the dark " and unless I was racing with a team of gorillas I reckon that spot on, I'd set a conservative amount of sail.
I find it never gets absolutely dark at sea in decent weather, but can get cold even in summer; dawn at sea is quite magical, when the lights one has been watching for hours transform into anchored ships etc.
You're in for a great experience.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
It's not just the temperature that is cold, most people's metabolism goes to its lowest in the wee small hours, and this still happens to a certain extent even if you are awake at that time. Consequently, the cold feels even colder.
prv
Well-Known Member
Not a bad idea to have something easy to hand, though I think Phil has a short trip in mind during which a meal won't be needed. But self-heating seems a bit unnecessary on any well-found boat, that's what the cooker's for.
Pete
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
Night sailing is great fun, but I agree with Iain C that it is something you should try the first couple of times with someone else, preferrably on their boat so they can keep the buck. There's a bit of an art to picking out buoys and the lights on other vessels (in the case of large commercial vessels the clue is that they are usually the dimmest). Easier to make your first steps just a little easier.
Also had one crew who hadn't realised other people could see in the dark until he came sailing with us. Surprising how infrequently the modern urban dweller has to deal with the lack of light.
Also had one crew who hadn't realised other people could see in the dark until he came sailing with us. Surprising how infrequently the modern urban dweller has to deal with the lack of light.
jac
Well-Known Member
Some good advice on here BUT, the OP was asking about a short passage to get experience and was suggesting a passage lasting 2-3 hours that would be over before bed time. So whilst food and cold are considerations I would suggest that for the sort of passage being discussed it could be completed around food.
Agree with the other points re the hamble to Cowes trip. V busy most of the time which will keep you on your toes and a lot of background light.
My suggestion would be to sail down to Yarmouth after lunch and pick up a buoy. Have a meal then leave from there about dusk. If you want to see sectored lights head west and have a look at Hurst / the needles then turn back and head to Cowes. Western Solent is quieter and although you will get look from Soton the shores are mostly dark so will see buoys. If the tide is with you, you'll be in by 10 / 10:30 so will have time for a quick celebratory pint on arrival.
Agree with the other points re the hamble to Cowes trip. V busy most of the time which will keep you on your toes and a lot of background light.
My suggestion would be to sail down to Yarmouth after lunch and pick up a buoy. Have a meal then leave from there about dusk. If you want to see sectored lights head west and have a look at Hurst / the needles then turn back and head to Cowes. Western Solent is quieter and although you will get look from Soton the shores are mostly dark so will see buoys. If the tide is with you, you'll be in by 10 / 10:30 so will have time for a quick celebratory pint on arrival.
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
I hate trying to post here via a tablet
Seajet
...
Not when singlehanded !
Cooking is a PITA night sailing, even on short trips; a self heating meal will keep one warm and allow staying in the cockpit looking out, and trips planned for 2-3 hours have a habit of turning out longer; one might as well keep it easy and take all the help one can get.
I do agree with those who say Hamble to Cowes is not an ideal first night trip due to traffic and shore lights, it's not that drastic but I'd prefer somewhere a bit clearer like the South of the IOW or maybe Poole Bay.
Seajet
...
Another tip;
I might get lynched for saying this, but pot noodles are handy when night sailing, ideally if one can add a dash of hot Encona chilli sauce from Tesco's or whatever suits.
I might get lynched for saying this, but pot noodles are handy when night sailing, ideally if one can add a dash of hot Encona chilli sauce from Tesco's or whatever suits.
EuanMcKenzie
Well-Known Member
Having done my first one this summer I was happy it was slow and that i wasn't alone. We did Largs to Campbletown round the south of Arran and arrived in the dark.
We had lots of open water and little background light pollution until we came to Campbletown where it was very difficult to pick out the leading lights against the backdrop of the front and town.
I had my lap top set up as a chart plotter with GPS puck and it was reassuring to be able to switch it on and reconfirm my position regularly. I would second the comments re lights. I found it hard as I had little night experience and having time to think really helped.
Finally we had three on board and none of us had done one. It was useful to share the experience and ask each other which light we thought it was etc.
To me it not about doing a short first trip but more about doing a slightly longer trip where you have time to think each minouver through. We saw little traffic but saw enough especially the fishing boats which had all sorts of lights etc to confuse.
Worth doing it though, we've been talking about what a great trip it was ever since and now are less afraid to do a bit of darkness. Oh and one silly thing, work out how to make the readouts of your instruments work in night mode before it gets dark. Also autopilot is the best night time helm I had on board.
We had lots of open water and little background light pollution until we came to Campbletown where it was very difficult to pick out the leading lights against the backdrop of the front and town.
I had my lap top set up as a chart plotter with GPS puck and it was reassuring to be able to switch it on and reconfirm my position regularly. I would second the comments re lights. I found it hard as I had little night experience and having time to think really helped.
Finally we had three on board and none of us had done one. It was useful to share the experience and ask each other which light we thought it was etc.
To me it not about doing a short first trip but more about doing a slightly longer trip where you have time to think each minouver through. We saw little traffic but saw enough especially the fishing boats which had all sorts of lights etc to confuse.
Worth doing it though, we've been talking about what a great trip it was ever since and now are less afraid to do a bit of darkness. Oh and one silly thing, work out how to make the readouts of your instruments work in night mode before it gets dark. Also autopilot is the best night time helm I had on board.
prv
Well-Known Member
Why not? Only takes a few seconds to light the oven and pop something in.
Unless you're stowing the self-heating mush in your oily pocket and ripping it open with your teeth, so that you dont need to leave the tiller for a second, it hardly seems to make much difference whether you use chemical heat packs or butane. But I did specify a well-found boat, which to me includes an autopilot unless you have an entire racing crew on board.
Not at all. I grant you, if singlehanded it's best to do something that just needs heating up so you can maintain a good lookout, but if there's at least two people and conditions are reasonable then why not cook a nice dinner? Last three times across the Channel I did sausage and mash with peas and onion gravy; coming back each time has been a little bouncier so it was either chilli or my patent spicy meatball stew with couscous. Russell seemed to like it.
None of this is of any relevance to Phil's upcoming trip, though.
Pete
Simondjuk
Well-Known Member
Why is it more of a pain to cook at night than during the daytime? 
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
Why is it more of a pain to cook at night than during the daytime?
Gas doesn't burn so hot at night so it takes longer to cook everything. Less irradiated thermionic Wigner energy in the atmosphere, caused by the Fenkel defect.
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TeamSpirit
Well-Known Member
Make sure your night vision is established in advance - takes 10 to 15 mins to get used to the darkness. Plan passage, look carefully on charts for lighting marks and make sure you have lowered instrument back lighting to minimum levels, less in night sailing is definitely more.
I usually avoid areas at night that I know to have pots set so minimising risk of catching one.
Food is usually in a flask, pasta or hot pot - not poodles as a last resort.
I usually avoid areas at night that I know to have pots set so minimising risk of catching one.
Food is usually in a flask, pasta or hot pot - not poodles as a last resort.
