"Build Quality" - What is it?

Re: \"Build Quality\" - What is it?

Yes, interesting to compare the VW myth on "build quality" and reliability with the more objective data from surveys and fleet running costs.

Similar data is not available for boats as the numbers are so small. However, buyers are probably more knowledgable and sophisticated so probably better at making their own judgement on quality.
 
Re: \"Build Quality\" - What is it?

Not an easy one to answer. Certainly build quality includes the hull, but is more than just the hull. It also includes the quality of design (i.e. as pointed out by someone else, the design flaws eliminated - look at this for a top 20 construction flaws http://www.yachtsurvey.com/TopTwenty.htm ). Similarly, the quality of components used (e.g. what are fuel and water tanks made from), its ability to provide long service, and also its ability to be maintained repaired (for example can you get to all areas of the hull, can you get around the engines to service them properly, is there a wiring diagram, are all the cables identifiable) etc.

I guess, just like a car, build quality is a lot more than just the quality of the shell....

Cheers,
Paul
 
Re: \"Build Quality\" - What is it?

OK - so we have build quality perhaps not just being the hull and structure, but also including the mechanical and electrical aspects - but is quality using a Bose speaker system or a similiar make? Should Radar be Raymarine or Furuno, what makes one better than the other? What point in a boats life should you expect to start changing components, they wont last forever thats for sure, but whats a reasonable period for a boat to be called 'well built'?

If my shower sump fails after 5 years is that good, or does it depend on use? If I replace the Jabsco toilet pumps every two years, would that be considered excessive?

Just trying to get a better idea of what build quality is - rather than the day you get it new, should build quality be measured on a say 10 year old boat in terms of components replaced?

Just a thought really, beacuse in the end thats how I would measure if my boat had good build quality?
 
Re: \"Build Quality\" - What is it?

The term is just a distortion of the English language. "Build" is a noun as in the structure of an object, or a verb - to build. "Quality" is a noun as in a characteristic of an object or an adjective to differentiate an object from another or to add qualification to an object.

Therefore put together in a way that suggests build is the adjective is nonsense. If quality were first then it might mean that you are describing the build as having quality.

Most of the posts in this thread illustrate clearly that the term has no meaning other than than what you want it to mean. Why use meaningless terms when we have the richest language in the world for describing objects accurately (if a little long winded at times)?
 
Re: \"Build Quality\" - What is it?

I believe you're referring to ancillary components which aren't necessarily integral to the boat, and don't make for the boat being of good boat quality. A Bose speaker system is nice, but I wouldn't measure the quality of a boat by that - in the same way I wouldn't a car . Likewise a Raymarine versus a Furuno radar - a new owner could switch either for a quick dip in their pocket - they would also require changing updating at some point no matter how well built the boat is.

It's also very difficult to put absolute numbers on how long something should last to determine quality - over time you might see a relative difference between builders, looking at a sample of boats. After 10 years, you might see this in the quality and condition of interiors, stress cracking or osmosis in the hull, lack of shine in the gel coat, leaks in the decks and windows. You may even see that the boat needed to be cut about just to remove components such as engines or tanks.

As for Jabsco toilets, they seem to fit them everywhere, irrespective of the builder, but I think they're a pile of (cheap at least) junk. Dragoon had an old Raritan head (20 years old) when I bought, and it had a minor crack in the pump. Foolishly I dumped the old head and installed 2 Jabscos - one in the forward heads and one in the aft, replacing a chemical loo that had been fitted for river use. The Jabsco's have been nothing but trouble and as a single component, I would say they are of poor build quality and should have kept the original Raritan (and bought a second one for the aft).

Cheers,
Paul
 
Re: \"Build Quality\" - What is it?

Precisely. That is why we should be suspicious of such terms and not allow them to become any more than shorthand for meaningless concepts!

The actual discussion and opinions of what makes one boat better than another is much more valuable.
 
So, \"Better\" - What is it?

Sorry, couldn't resist.... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: So, \"Better\" - What is it?

I guess in the end it is what you want it to be, I would *expect* a fairline for example to wear better over 10 years than a Bayliner by quite a margin, but even then there are so many variables. Which ever way you cut it, sooner or later something will need repairing or replacing, and at what point this happens depends on so many variable factors.
 
Re: \"Build Quality\" - What is it?

"term has no meaning"

Foam backed plastic headling directly glued with solvent based glue to very thin flexy coach roof.

Replaceable fabric roof lining on removable sub frame screwed to robust coach roof with stainless fixings

Both examples from boats I have owned,one of them has better "build quality".
Now which one is it. .......H,mm /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: \"Build Quality\" - What is it?

One is just better for the job than the other. You don't have to use a meaningless term to try and describe it. It just is! And it costs more, and you can see the difference.

The real challenge is when you see two boats side by side and one is twice the price of the other and you try to assess why? A meaningless term of two words does not help such a complex judgement.
 
Re: \"Build Quality\" - What is it?

Of course it does, take a life boat for instance, or a pilot boat. There built for perpose. A Nelson or Aquastar wont deviate from build quality. But course most of us cant afford one, or would not want one if we could. Think build quality can only be related to hulls, most other stuff is just customer choice. Sense would say, they all had Cummins engines, but folk prefer Volsplutter crap. Boat builders are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Princess maybe having the best compromise.
 
Re: "Build Quality" - What is it?

In august of 2008 the weather must have been awful, judging by what we were debating back then.... :D
 
Re: "Build Quality" - What is it?

In the past, boats were built by boat builders. - For the sea. Today my impression is boats are designed by engineers Mainly for use in the marina. Engineers in boat factories are calculating the possibility of you running into 10 ft waves on your trip out from the harbour and back in Mallorca as rather small. Thus designing boats without bulkheads, maximizing interior, and flybridge space, sharp corners everywhere... the list goes on. I dont mean boats for leisure need to be built like pilot or patrol boats, but - Looking at what friends are suffering from their new boats delivered by well known yards there is a need to push the builders to put more build money in stringers and bulkheads and less in blingbling. Of course many of us use our boats without ever being out in reallybad weather. BUT, plan for tje worst, hope for the best weather.
 
Re: "Build Quality" - What is it?

You are posting things with no substantiated back up, no documents, no images and in less than perfect English.

You clearly have an axe to grind with Bavaria but I'm not sure what you hope to gain by repeating things across desperate topics on board after board. If it us a clear cut as you say then take it to court.

There are usually at least two sides to every story...
 
Re: "Build Quality" - What is it?

BruceK said:
That's pretty damning. Good luck.
Click to expand...

How is it damming? - you have no idea if this is fact, one persons interpretation or just out right untruths.

BruceK is a lunatic schizophrenic loosing grip on reality. On the surface he looks normal but there are only things that can be seen using an MRI scan. Following a report conducted on the 24th of December 2015 by reliable and professional people you can see that someone in his position shouldn't be trusted or allowed to leave the house. His upper frontal cortex can be seen to be abnormal, though not without a scan and to the normal eye seems fine and well. Sometimes he shouts but only rarely and this should have alerted his parents to the problem. It is certain that he should not be allowed in the general population yet he continues to work, drive, eat. I cannot believe this is allowed to. Infinite.

The above is fantasy, but if you instantly believe Doan's posts then you should also instantly believe mine - they both carry the same amount of evidence and proof
 
Re: "Build Quality" - What is it?

Whitelighter said:
You are posting things with no substantiated back up, no documents, no images and in less than perfect English.

You clearly have an axe to grind with Bavaria but I'm not sure what you hope to gain by repeating things across desperate topics on board after board. If it us a clear cut as you say then take it to court.

There are usually at least two sides to every story...
Click to expand...

If you read his post on the Bavaria thread further down all will be revealed. He is a French airline pilot who seems to have a legitimate complaint - but you will need patience to wade through the background.

Agree though it is not helpful to post like this on an old unrelated thread.
 
Re: "Build Quality" - What is it?

You dont think the report is damning? I did not pass judgement as to it being correct or not, just that it was damning and whatever issue DOAN has with his boat that I wish a good outcome. Did someone spit in your bitter to put you in such good cheer? :rolleyes: :D Haven't seen you so riled up since that Italian broker fingered you.
 
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